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Will of the Electors restricted


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#1 Kaine82

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:25 PM

Read about it here

 

I usually hate hearing new cards are restricted, but I can see why they did this.

The Wilhelm of the Osterknacht/Judgement of Verena combo decks are pretty rough to go up against. Once they move all the developments out of your Kingdom and your units into the quest, they really only need to Verena once to secure the win. It is almost impossible to recover from.


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#2 Vitamin T

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 06:54 PM

Personally I'd rather have seen Judgment itself restricted rather than Will of the Electors.  I just feel like Will can go into other kinds of decks and could function in a way where it isnt overpowered where as Judgement would most likely not appear in a deck without Will in it.

 

Restricting one of them is probably for the best currently though.



#3 gr4ffi

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:06 PM

I'd rather had Verena restricted a long tima ago. Where there any tournament results lately that can support this restriction? We only tested Chaos Control vs Verena once and it was kind of equal in strength.



#4 Ellyrik

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:39 AM

Judgement should be errated to "one zone" and no restriction would be needed.

Until then we banned this card in our local playgroup and empire decks are still good.



#5 Kaine82

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 01:34 AM

We see a lot of Chaos control too. Empire is my favorite race to play, but I almost never run Verena. When you run it you pretty much have to build your deck around it to make it worth while and we get board playing the same decks all the time.

Seems like they prefer to restrict speed over power(Derricksburg Forge, Innovation, Warpstone Excavation, Mining Tunnels for example). Moving 2 developments for 1 resource and only 1 loyalty is quite a lot considering only one can be played from your hand per turn.


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#6 LiouKen

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 08:01 AM

Kaine82 said:

Read about it here

 

I usually hate hearing new cards are restricted, but I can see why they did this.

The Wilhelm of the Osterknacht/Judgement of Verena combo decks are pretty rough to go up against. Once they move all the developments out of your Kingdom and your units into the quest, they really only need to Verena once to secure the win. It is almost impossible to recover from.

 

oh yeah, if this combo is so overpowered, then why the 2011 World Champion is DE deck? and even no Empire player enter top four?



#7 Virgo

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 08:26 AM

LiouKen said:

oh yeah, if this combo is so overpowered, then why the 2011 World Champion is DE deck? and even no Empire player enter top four?

Because 2011 "World Championships" didn't have that many players and the results didn't reflect meta well. On Polish championships with 69 players the tops were dominated by the pre-restrictions Empire decks.

i don't know if this is right way to deal with the Verena, maybe they should have restricted the card itself. Maybe they do this because future cards will rely heavily on developments. One thing I know for sure: I won't cry for Verena when she's gone



#8 Vamosamorir

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:36 AM

I hear, that to balance the game is going to add one final element to the list of restricted: empire board capital xDDDDDD.

Turn 1: sorcerer of tzeench (KZ)

Turn 2: new marauders (BZ).... play, empire, play.



#9 Virgo

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:03 AM

No additional hammer to quest? If was beginning I would Troll Vomit all over that Sorc and Marauder. Like totally.



#10 Doc9

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:28 PM

Kaine82 said:

 

Seems like they prefer to restrict speed over power(Derricksburg Forge, Innovation, Warpstone Excavation, Mining Tunnels for example). Moving 2 developments for 1 resource and only 1 loyalty is quite a lot considering only one can be played from your hand per turn.

 

 

I think they may be trying to lengthen the game play a bit by restricting the cards that really speed things up. Seems as thought they realize that the game can be decided after 1-2 turns depending on cards drawn and are trying to change that. I hope this is the reason anyhow. I hate the idea of a game being decided before it really has a chance to get going.



#11 Kaine82

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 01:57 PM

I would like to see the game lengthened. Seems like no matter what race is dominating it's always a rush deck.


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#12 rzarectz

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 08:37 PM

The biggest problem with this game right now is how easily it can be won or lost on turns 1 and 2.  I really think FFG should be taking steps to lower the power/vunerability of players resulting from great draws and unavoidable gambles in the games early stages.  Starting your second or third turn knowing you've already lost the game is just not fun, even in competitive play; and there's no reason this should be the case, even in competitive play.

I see two general ways to alleviate this problem:

1st) Release more cheap ( both resource wise and loyalty wise) cards such that resources can be spread over numerous items in the early stages of the game (much like was the case with empire before the derricksburg nerf).  I dont think any player anywhere should have to worry about drawing into a position where he has to invest all 3 resources on one item for his first turn. More cheap cards with low loyalty for all the races will lower the probability of this happening, and increase the types of  builds that can be used competitively   

2nd) Most of you probably wont like this..  Increase the starting resource count to 4, the starting card count to 8 or 9, and the damage needed to burn a zone to 10. 



#13 Ellyrik

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:12 PM

 Maybe ruch decks are strong because there is no "summoning sickness" like in Magic. So units attack the turn they're played. It seems to be a view of the designer.

If the Battlefield phase was played right after the Quest phase and before the Capital phase, units would have to wait a turn in order to attack.



#14 Vamosamorir

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 02:02 AM

Virgo said:

No additional hammer to quest? If was beginning I would Troll Vomit all over that Sorc and Marauder. Like totally.

 

Please read all... I said:  "play empire, play"  In fact, if you are a Orc player i take another options y my beginning with a chaos deck. But Order decks that cannot play troll vomit, wight lord, corsairs, etc... what can they do in her second turn vds this star?  why do not restrict Verena, troll vomit and  Sorcerer better?



#15 Kaine82

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 02:05 AM

Ellyrik said:

 Maybe ruch decks are strong because there is no "summoning sickness" like in Magic. So units attack the turn they're played. It seems to be a view of the designer.

If the Battlefield phase was played right after the Quest phase and before the Capital phase, units would have to wait a turn in order to attack.

As much as I never liked Magic, this sounds pretty good.


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#16 Ellyrik

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 02:15 AM

 Thanks ( i don't like Magic too). It's a friend of mine who was shocked that the capital phase interrupted the logical flow of the board ^^



#17 Virgo

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:14 AM

Vamosamorir said:

what can they do in her second turn vds this star?  why do not restrict Verena, troll vomit and  Sorcerer better?

What can empire player do against such start if he goes second? Peasant Militia+Runefang+Verena+Long Winter+Contested Village/Huntsman to quest=GG

Verena is much more broken than Vomit or Sorc. Units are rarely problem in this game as there is so much unit hate. Look at restricted list. Wilhelm because he was overpowered when moving units to the zone that was going to get verena'd or because he was working with VTHC. Rodrik because he was just over the top with Call for Reserves and Osterknach Elite.

I agree that maybe they should have restricted Verena instead of Will. But this restriction came out of the blue (no forum petition to ban Verena XD) so maybe they did so thinking about future cards we still don't know.



#18 LiouKen

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 04:22 AM

Virgo said:

LiouKen said:

 

oh yeah, if this combo is so overpowered, then why the 2011 World Champion is DE deck? and even no Empire player enter top four?

 

 

Because 2011 "World Championships" didn't have that many players and the results didn't reflect meta well. On Polish championships with 69 players the tops were dominated by the pre-restrictions Empire decks.

i don't know if this is right way to deal with the Verena, maybe they should have restricted the card itself. Maybe they do this because future cards will rely heavily on developments. One thing I know for sure: I won't cry for Verena when she's gone

a pretty good reply, would you please show us the card list of the Polish Champion deck?



#19 Vamosamorir

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 04:37 AM

Virgo said:

r?

 

What can empire player do against such start if he goes second? Peasant Militia+Runefang+Verena+Long Winter+Contested Village/Huntsman to quest=GG

 

 

1% of probability that you first hand have all this cards!!!!. You have played  5 cards to destroy 2 units... still loosing. I'll have 6 cards+1 new draw (remember is my turn). You have 2 or 3 cards in your hand.



#20 Kaine82

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 05:31 AM

The Polish winner was running a Reclaiming the Fallen deck, very powerful. Even though the Verena decks may not be winning first place all the time they are still very powerful and very boring to loose to.

2011 Stahleck Winning deck


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