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Are Hinansho secret tokens bonus tokens?


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#1 Moebius

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:03 AM

Can the "secret tokens" found in Hinansho expansion used as regular bonus tokens in normal games? Im referring to Graven Shard, Globe Dossier, Chrysantemun Seal and Diva.

For those that do not have the Hinansho Expansion:

Union Globe Dossier:Ability: Before the game begins pick a character. Select two characteristics, two skills or one and one. Characteristics suffer a -1 and skills cannot be used during the game. (exactly the opposite of wolfs special ability)

Shogunate Chrysantemun Seal: Hardware:Once per turn as sonn as this character activation is over, a character sharing his faction symbol may inmediately start their own activation before an enemy character activation.

Reich Graven Shard: Occult: During this character activation he may take a mental test. If successful any character may pass through this character without a bull rush, and this character also rolls 2 additional dice on his shock rolls. These effects last until the beggining of his characters next activation.

Matriarchy: Diva: Hardware, Ability: When this character activates he inmediately moves 3 circles before any action or movement points are spent. If anyone moves into the same path this character is inmediately moved one space away. Moving with this ability never counts as an action, does not remove overwatch status, does not use movement points.

2 of these would be the two first faction only bonus tokens for matriarchy and shogunate.

I dont think they are overpowered, Graven shard is no doubt the best one by far although I dont know if taking the test implies spending an action, if it did it would nerf it a lot.



#2 Artemus Maximus

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 06:55 AM

i personally use them as bonus tokens.

But for Graven Shard...since it doesn't say "as an action," you're free to use it each turn. Also, technically, any test with at lest 1 success is "successful" per revised rules. So yeah....it's a little overpowered with Hoss or Heizinger imo. Unless you either house rule it requires 3 successes, an action, once per game only, or part of a scenario where obtaining it happens only when the Reich is losing.

 

digression:  im actually working on a 3-game dynamic campaign (not one where it's the same map each game - imagine that!) and includes 'leveling-up' of Heroes (unlocking better equipment & abilities, etc). Since this can easily lead to a run-away leader situation (say all Reich guys die in game 1, all Union guys live and get better), in the second games, the loser of the first game will not only have home-field advatage (Union on Gevaudan with its long "shooty" paths, Reich in Castle, perfect for out-of-path and melee attacks, etc and ALL objectives placed use the losing team's tokens), but also, only the loser will possibly be able to obtain and have access to their special Faction Secret Token from Hinansho (to use for the third and final game!). So far, tests have yielded positive results :)

 

one thing i find interesting - the Union Secret is basically the opposite of Wolf's special ability - talk about a headache if you're using wolf (or any other character for that matter) mainly because of their skillset for the map!

 



#3 Moebius

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 07:51 AM

 Graven shard is not overpowered IMHO due to the faction it sits in. Given Reich average mental ans stamina stats it usually makes it much more convenient to pick Helm of diomedes or Mask of Shamhain. Letting barry or mcneal shoot you on the first place is look for trouble even rolling 6 dice for shock rolls.

Id like to see your hero progression rules, my first try was to use the row system redesigning its use. So unexperienced characters have 4 wounds but always use the lowest row while veterans get to use higher rows. That has the nice side effect of empowering frequently unused packs. The bad thing is that voivodes were suddently overpowered by comparison, so what I limited was their tokens.

I am going to keep using them as bonus tokens, I agree with you on that, a shame they didnt come with equipment cards.



#4 Artemus Maximus

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 09:53 AM

ill send you what i got - but in a nutshell it's pretty simple.

i didnt mess around with stat values or health rows because it can get a little too messy keeping track of (for me). and once you get past 7 for a non-movement value, it becomes easy to throw things out of balance as far as possibilities on dice for tests. So i decided to keep values & health rows as they are, since they obviously put thought into making them what they are and it creates more work.

That being said, i got some arrowhead tokens from Litko on order - they're flourescent orange and just say "+1+ etched on them. I'll use them normally for reminders of stat increases from CP, but they could be used as permanent stat modifiers when a Hero reaches Veteran or Officer status....?

 

OK sooo the main leveling up system is this:

Heroes have 3 possible levels - Starting, Veteran, and Officer. Starting level has a set equipment selection of 4 tokens (and doesnt neccesarily correspond to an existing "pack" - i chose items to round out each hero, so they all have a weapon or two, some special ability if able, some 'defense' ability/item, and their special item).

MacNeal, for instance, starts with Nighteyes, Flash Gun MK1, Colt .45 1911 A1 OR Boxing, and Moving Target. He has no other options when starting his first game.

abilities, hermetica, litrugies, rituals, medals, ranks: don't take up one of the 4 equipment slots. these tokens are placed on character cards, and are unlimited in qty (more are acquired through leveling up & mission objectives).

If a hero is killed in battle as normal, he is instead in 'Out-of-Fight' status and laid face-down on board - cant use equipment, doesnt activate. If he takes 1 more success/auto wound, he's dead for good - KIA (Killed in Action). at the end of each turn, each player can move their out-of-fight, critically wounded heroes 1 space. Friendlies can pick up & carry the hero as well. You can heal them w/ First Aid Kits and/or have them exit map so they survive to fight another day because....

Heroes that survive their 1st mission by exiting the map advance to Veteran status - they have 2-3 more (better) equipment & ability options for the next game (in addition to the starting equipment pool). Out-of-Fight Heroes that exit the map roll 1d10: 1: DOW (died of wounds = dead for good), 2-9: WIA (wounded in action: advance to Veteran, but sit out next game). 10: Active/Reserve (just a scratch! fully recovered with no side effects!  ...this will probably NEVER happen for me lol). So it is possible that a Hero survives game 1, but is WIA, missed second game from recovering from wounds, and then for the third game, he will be better at Veteran Status.

For example: If MacNeal reaches Veteran status by surviving a game, he gains Expert Infantry Badge, Combat Infantry Badge, and the Colt .45 1911 AS + M-1929-C Bullets. The badges are 'free' upgrades since they don't take up slots - the better Colt will likely either add to his arsenal, or have to replace something else (like the weaker Colt .45) or something else he picked up in the previous game.

Heroes that survive their 2nd mission by exiting the map advance to Officer status - they generally have access to 2 more options for the 3rd game that are typically Ranks, Medals, or powerful abilities/equipment. All +CP tokens, + Initiative tokens, +reinforcement tokens, etc are obtained here.

Example: MacNeal advances to 'Officer' status. In the 3rd & final game, he can possibly have ALL of the following: Nighteyes, Flash Gun MK1, Colt .45 1911 AS, Boxing, Combat & Expert Infantry Badges, the rank of Major and either the Silver Star OR Medal of Honor tokens. A true hardcore decorated Hero! But not impossible to kill - his stats remain the same core ones.

As i said, Mission 2 serves to give the losing player a fighting chance to overcome the odds of fighting a superior force. They all include the Gold Bars from Wolf - 6 gold bars can "buy" advancement at the end of the game from Veteran to Officer status! Also, in the 2nd game, If a Starting Hero kills (KIA - doesnt survive match) a Veteran, they advance 1 extra level and will be an Officer in the 3rd game as a reward from their High Command. THis, in addition to having the [FACTION-specific] Secret token available IF recovered, can give someone who was brutally massacred in the first game a chance to win the 3rd game, the 'Battle Royale' :)

It is possible that one side could start a match, exit the map on the seconds turn in order to ensure promotion, but this is really at their loss - the other side will gain MUCH more benefit from playing the scenarios because they can gain extra equipment (Asteros Armor, Faction Secrets, crate items, and other general bonus tokens).

 

Since they couldnt bother to create an "Operation Tannhauser" scenario for the revised rules, I'm calling this Operation: Tannhauser :P An Opus of scenarios ive been working on. It is the Reich vs either the Union or Matriarchy (shogunate don't really have enough characters & tokens yet unfortunately to make this work as a standalone thematically - each faction needs 5 heroes and 1 dedicated mercenary to have enough reserves)

Game 1: Labryrinth - defeat & capture Asteros - if you do, you can field him! (he'll only have Labrys & the Daedalan Shield though). Beware! - there are Sentinels abound! (revenants). Complete each primary objective to gain a special ability or item (Antitheseus, Glyph of Enoch, Elizabeth Bathory, Mark of the MIshappen).

Game 2: depends on who 'lost' game 1 (there are no 'traditional' winners - based on if someone captured Asteros, then objective completion)

Union Loss: Outpost of Gevaudan. Union has to recover the Golden Globe Dossier! Watch out for the Beast!

Reich Loss: Castle Ksiaz: Reich has to recover the Graven Shard! Watch out for the Guards!

Matriarchy Loss: Tesla Priory: Matriarchy has to recover the Diva Voivode thingy. Watch out for secret assassin agents disguised as peasants!

Game 3: Catacombs. Classic be-the-first-to-complete-your primary-objective game (must complete secondary objectives first). Uses Revenant tokens as in i'm not a revenant scenario in daedalus that 'spawn' at the central circle that holds the Inertial Dampener from Hoss, that causes further wrinkles into strategy by wounding characters who dont have the syringes or scroll. A truly Epic battle to stop the Reich (or lead them!) into opening the portal :D

 

it's definitely not for beginners - with all the tokens it can be overwhelming (heroes could have the 4 slots filled PLUS up to 6 more abilities, ranks, medals, etc), but if you know these characters as well as many of use do on the forums here, by the third game, it's not TOO much to keep track of I think. gotta test more...

still in work, but pretty happy with how it's balancing out so far. i havent checked out your rules on the blog - keep forgetting, but will certainly do so asap :)

 

 



#5 Artemus Maximus

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 10:02 AM

oh and if it happens that you get to game 3 and you have NO Heroes left Active or in Reserve that can be fielded (you probably lost the 1st 2 games anyway), then you may choose to equip one "Elite" trooper for each Hero you're lacking. Elite Heroes (aka Super Troopers ) can choose up to ANY 4 equipment tokens (weapons, grenades, hardware) AND ALL abilities, ranks, & medals associated with that trooper. (no increase in stats or health level though).

CP in this campaign mode i see as = to # of alive & well heroes you currently control on the map - so once a Hero is out of fight, or exits map, you lose 1 CP during refresh (making reinforcements very hard). This means that these Elite Troopers will not provide CP as well.



#6 Miah999

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:43 AM

I use them as bonus tokens as well, I even mentioned that in my Hinansho video.

I'll have to take a closer look at that Leveling system A.M., it looks very interesting.






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