Jump to content



Photo

Cortex Implant


  • Please log in to reply
31 replies to this topic

#1 WhiteLycan

WhiteLycan

    Member

  • Members
  • 171 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 06:59 PM

Can anyone give me a few uses for Unnatural Intelligence please? How often do Opposed INT tests come up, really?



#2 Errant

Errant

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,176 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:27 PM

Medicae. Combat Formation. Divine Ministration. Gun Blessing. Stacking the Deck(!). Weapon-Tech. 



#3 WhiteLycan

WhiteLycan

    Member

  • Members
  • 171 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:30 PM

When are any of those opposed INT tests? I can see Combat Formation being opposed INT, but none of the others. Your patient rarely opposes you saving his life.



#4 Errant

Errant

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,176 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:00 PM

 By RAW, there are no opposed Intelligence tests. The talents and skills I listed use your Intelligence Bonus for various results, hence the use of the Cortex Implant.



#5 WhiteLycan

WhiteLycan

    Member

  • Members
  • 171 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:18 PM

 Yes but unnatural characteristic tests specifically apply to opposed characteristic tests. Except for maybe STR. At least that's what I gleaned from reading both the RT and DH rules for unnatural characteristics. 



#6 Errant

Errant

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,176 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:42 PM

That's like saying a Power Fist shouldn't double your Strength Bonus for damage because it's not opposed. There's no such thing as an Unnatural Characteristic test. An Unnatural Characteristic doubles your base characteristic bonus for all intents and purposes, with the exception of Unnatural Agility not increasing your movement speed. As an added bonus, if you win an Opposed test, your Unnatural Bonus is added to your degrees of success.



#7 WhiteLycan

WhiteLycan

    Member

  • Members
  • 171 posts

Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:23 PM

 I never said anything about an unnatural characteristic test. Power fists specifically state they double your STR bonus. 

That's all fine and dandy that it doubles your characteristic bonus. I'm not trying to figure out how unnatural characteristics work. I'm trying to figure out what opposed int tests are available to make and in what situations a higher int bonus is useful. So far all I've come up with is first aid. I'm not sure what the rest of your examples are (assuming by Medicae you meant first aid)



#8 H2SO4

H2SO4

    Member

  • Members
  • 47 posts

Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:35 AM

Let's see what I can find:

Medicae (skill) used for the first aid, successful Medicae Test removes Damage equal to the Explorer’s *Intelligence Bonus* on lightly damaged characters or 1 damage point from heavily or critically damaged characters ... Medicae Skill for extended care speeds the healing process. The Explorer can properly treat a number of patients equal to his *Intelligence Bonus*.

Divine Ministration (Missionary talent) [RT Core, pg 96] may spend a Fate Point to restore an amount of Damage equal to his Willpower Bonus instead of the normal amount. This amount is then added to and multiplied in the normal way depending on the type of care (see the Medicae description on page 83). In the case of first aid to a Lightly Wounded character, the Explorer restores an amount of Damage equal to his Willpower Bonus plus his *Intelligence Bonus*.

Combat Formation (talent) [RT Core, pg 95] Before rolling initiative, all other members of the group may choose to use the character’s *Intelligence Bonus* for all initiative rolls rather than individual Agility Bonuses.

Gun Blessing (talent) [RT Core, pg 99] Using the Explorer’s sacred ability to subtly affect ferrous materials, he can un-jam a number of weapons equal to his *Intelligence Bonus*, so long as they are within a 10-metre radius.

Binary Cortex (Elite Advance - Rite of Duplessence) [Into the Storm, pg 105] The brain starts with a number of Intelligence-based Skills, chosen from those currently available on the Explorer’s Advance Scheme (so, if the Explorer is a Rank 4 Explorator, the other brain in the Binary Cortex can buy any skills from ranks 1-4 of the Explorator advance scheme), equal to his *Intelligence Bonus*, and all are considered to be Trained Skills, Basic or Advanced depending on the skill’s normal type.

Stacking the Deck (Navigator Power) [Into the Storm pg.192] Novice: The Navigator makes a Dif?cult (–10) Perception Test. If the Test succeeds, he may add his *Intelligence Bonus* x5 to any Manoeuvre Action or single Ballistic Skill Test to ?re the starship’s guns. Adept: The Navigator can make a Hard (–20) Perception Test. If the Test succeeds, the Navigator may take his *Intelligence Bonus* and divide out the points among any of the following starship characteristics to increase them: Speed or Armour. This increase lasts for 1 Strategic Turn, but the Navigator cannot use this ability again for the rest of the combat. Should he fail this Test by one or more degrees, the Navigator suffers two levels of Fatigue. Master: As per Adept, except that the increases last for 1d5 Strategic Turns. In addition, using the power at this level is extremely taxing. As such the Navigator gains two levels of Fatigue or four if the Test fails by one or more degrees.

Levitation  (Astropath talent) [Into the Storm, pg 195] To determine how much weight the psyker can levitate with this power, consult Table 9-33: Carrying, Lifting & Pushing, on page 268 of the RT Core Rulebook. Instead of using the psyker’s Strength Bonus and Toughness Bonus, use his Willpower Bonus and *Intelligence Bonus*.

 

Unnatural Intelligence has its uses. With it, Stacking the Deck becomes pretty much obscene.

For its use in opposed tests, maybe a game of chess (with the proper skill applied)? Or an opposed logic test vs a heretical AI to take over the ship's central cogitators?



#9 WhiteLycan

WhiteLycan

    Member

  • Members
  • 171 posts

Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:56 AM

Thank you for finding all the examples, but there are plenty of faults (not on you, but on the game designers... or at least faults with their idea of what Unnatural Intelligence is capable of)

My character is a rank 2 Explorator that is going to take Genetor and fills the role of ship medic.

Medicae: INT bonus is only applied to Lightly Wounded targets. Average Toughness Bonus is 3, maybe 4. My INT is 78. There's really no point in having Unnatural Intelligence when it doesn't really have any effect on this skill.

Divine Ministration: Only applies to a single career (Missionary)

Combat Formation: Only one career gets this talent on their career list. It is nice, especially if you have an INT mod of 8 (16 with UI). But most arch-militants don't.

Gun Blessing: Semi-useful. I don't see much gun jamming in my sessions. Not to mention, wasting exp to buy a  talent that just saves a turn one in 20 rounds isn't that spectacular imo.

Binary Cortex: Very nice! Will look into this one.

Stacking the Deck: Only applies to a single career (Navigator)

Levitation: Only applies to one career (Psyker)

 

So the number of uses of Unnatural Intelligence are:
2 for Arch-Militant (Medicae, Combat Formation)
3 for Explorator (Medicae, Gun Blessing, Binary Cortex)
1 for Missionary (Divine Ministration)
1 for Navigator (Stacking the Deck)
1 for Psyker (Levitation)

 

Just a little underwhelming... Wish Rogue Trader used the Inquisitor's Handbook rules for Unnatural Characteristics. Each multiplier reduces the difficulty of related Tests by 1 step (-30 becomes -20, +10 becomes +20, etc.)

 

I really appreciate all the descriptions, H2SO4!



#10 Maese Mateo

Maese Mateo

    Member

  • Members
  • 358 posts

Posted 19 March 2012 - 02:13 AM

Unnatural Characteristics in Rogue Trader where badly copied from the other books. If you check Dark Heresy and Deathwatch, it works like this (which is how I use it in my games):

 

1- You double your Characteristic Bonus.

 

2- You add your Unnatural multiplier to all opposed skill tests.

 

3- You lower the difficulty of unnopossed skill tests by one degree (that is, Very Hard becomes Hard, for example).

 

 

PS: Unnatural Willpower is really kick ass for Psykers, since the multiplier is added to your Psy Rating in Rogue Trader (example, Psy Rating 4 + Unnatural Willpower x2 = Psy Rating 6).

 



#11 Umbranus

Umbranus

    Member

  • Members
  • 394 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 12:38 AM

WhiteLycan said:

Medicae: INT bonus is only applied to Lightly Wounded targets. Average Toughness Bonus is 3, maybe 4. My INT is 78. There's really no point in having Unnatural Intelligence when it doesn't really have any effect on this skill.

Hardy or, I think, autosanguine remove that restriction.

It seems unnatural int may be more relevant in DH/ascension. There I felt it was rather unbalancing. Not quite as much as the unnatural Wil is with psykers or the vindicare with his full load of physical unnaturals but enough for me to not like it.

For example the Adept/sage gehts unnatural int, he gets medicae, combat formation and nearly all int related skills so the lowering of the difficulty makes it rather powerful.

Besides, yes we had opposed logic tests now and then.
For example when some NPC insulted the party as dumb and the Sage "attacked" him with a full load of scientific bull to prove that it's rather the other way round.



#12 Iku Rex

Iku Rex

    Member

  • Members
  • 242 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:58 AM

Maese Mateo said:

Unnatural Characteristics in Rogue Trader where badly copied from the other books.

 

(I asked FFG about that a while back, and they said it's an intentional change.)



#13 Maese Mateo

Maese Mateo

    Member

  • Members
  • 358 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 06:58 AM

Iku Rex said:

Maese Mateo said:

 

Unnatural Characteristics in Rogue Trader where badly copied from the other books.

 

 

(I asked FFG about that a while back, and they said it's an intentional change.)

 

It would be an intentional change which makes sense if:

 

a) It didn't make Unnatural Characteristics a lot let useful (the only ones that are really useful with the RT as written are Strenght, Toughness and Willpower if you are a Psyker, everything else is pretty useless)

 

b) They didn't use the old rules on future game lines that came after Rogue Trader, like Deathwatch.

 

Rogue Trader been the only game where Unnatural Characteristics works different doesn't make sense at all, and I can't see any intentional design purpuse under it save for "hey, we screw it and forgot to add a pharagraph".

 

Maybe they did have a different design gial in mind when they made the RT core, but it's obvious they changed it when DW came out. Even on Black Crusade you get an additional benefir in addition to increasing the Characteristic Bonus (you add half your Unnatural Characteristic value in Degress of Success to any successful roll from the atribute).



#14 lurkeroutthere

lurkeroutthere

    Member

  • Members
  • 234 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:53 PM

Personally I use the Deathwatch/Dark Heresy version of unnatural attributes, I havn't noticed any problems.



#15 Blood Pact

Blood Pact

    Member

  • Members
  • 860 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 06:27 PM

I find that the Deathwatch uses its rules for unnatural attributes the most effectively. That is to say, in a game soley about Space Marines kicking ass, they can pull off using them as multipliers (instead of bonuses, like in BC, which would work very well with DH and RT) without drastically screwing up balance in combat. Afterall, any powerful Master adversary is going to have a few of those themself, and will put them to good use against the Emperor's finest.



#16 eBarbarossa

eBarbarossa

    Member

  • Members
  • 125 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 04:00 AM

I'd take the cortex implant just for the insanity points. XD

Anyway, since someone mentioned Unnatural Willpower - where do you get that? Woild be pretty hand for some chars.



#17 Maese Mateo

Maese Mateo

    Member

  • Members
  • 358 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:36 AM

eBarbarossa said:

Anyway, since someone mentioned Unnatural Willpower - where do you get that? Woild be pretty hand for some chars.

 

As far as I know, only Inquisitors in Dark Heresy (Ascention) get Unnatural Willpower (x2) and (x3) on their advance (I'm not sure if they also get x4).



#18 H2SO4

H2SO4

    Member

  • Members
  • 47 posts

Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:26 AM

Maese Mateo said:

As far as I know, only Inquisitors in Dark Heresy (Ascention) get Unnatural Willpower (x2) and (x3) on their advance (I'm not sure if they also get x4).

In DH Ascension:

Inquisitors get Unnatural Will (x2) at Rank 9 for (1000xp), (x3) at Rank 16 (2000xp). Primaris Psykers get Unnatural Will (x2) at Rank 14 for (1000xp), (x3) at Rank 16 (2000xp).

I don't recall seeing (x4)-unnaturals available for characters anywhere, with the exception of STR (x2 BQ muscle graft + x2 power fist + x2 Barrage (combat drug) = x4).



#19 nikink

nikink

    Member

  • Members
  • 59 posts

Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:34 AM

Sages get Unnatural Int x4 iirc. That might be with cortex implants though.

Death Cult Assassins can get Unnatural Agility x4 too.



#20 H2SO4

H2SO4

    Member

  • Members
  • 47 posts

Posted 22 March 2012 - 01:58 AM

nikink said:

Sages get Unnatural Int x4 iirc. That might be with cortex implants though.

Death Cult Assassins can get Unnatural Agility x4 too.

Dang, missed those. They're by trait, so no implants involved.

Confirms my suspicions, though. Ascension does hand out unnatural characteristics like free candy.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS