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#1 Julia

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 02:17 PM

Tonight we played another Mansions of Madness game. Still a lot of fun, but, like always, the Keeper won. Now, seriously, has everyone ever won the game when the Keeper plays aggressively from round 1?


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#2 MaddockKrug

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 02:30 PM

Hi.

Mh. I played MoM six times as the Keeper. I made it 3 times as the winner, 3 times as the looser. My game mode is not as hard; but tbh I am a ***** somewhat in a way that I don't use all the force on the Keeper's Actions; also I had plenty of bad luck with the Trauma- and Mythos Cards in almost any session ...

Would you mind explaining the "hard Keeper game style"?

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#3 Julia

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 01:46 AM

MaddockKrug said:

Hi.

Mh. I played MoM six times as the Keeper. I made it 3 times as the winner, 3 times as the looser. My game mode is not as hard; but tbh I am a ***** somewhat in a way that I don't use all the force on the Keeper's Actions; also I had plenty of bad luck with the Trauma- and Mythos Cards in almost any session ...

Would you mind explaining the "hard Keeper game style"?

All the best!

Mad

Hi Mad,

thx for answering! For "aggressive Keeper" I mean: pushing players since round 1. Spending all your threats to stockpile Trauma and Mythos and use your actions. Every time you can hit, you hit as strong as you can. Using monsters to protect what you need to be protected, and moving them every time you can to cause Investigators to check their Willpower. Slowly demolishing them, in order they have very few Stamina points left when you reveal your Objective, so that you can kill them with ease and no replacements can be drawn. Keep on using cards to move them wherever you want (distant from clues). Reset their puzzles every time you can, so that they are struck with it.

Do not misunderstand me, I love all levels of play, there is no need to be such aggressive, but, with my friends (all playing RPGs and BGs since the dawn of time) we all agreed on this: we want everyone be as tough as possible, we believe victories have a sweeter taste in this way. But it never happens the Keeper loses a game, in this way. So I was wondering: is the game a little broken if you push too hard?


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#4 MyNeighbourTrololo

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 04:02 AM

Sorry, I only play as a "entertaining" Keeper, making game more exciting in ways other than breaking the investigators balls. 

I still have a decent win ration though.


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#5 Dam

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 05:57 AM

What the...? There is another way to play other than gunning for the investigators from the word go? If so, I certainly would never bother with it. Keeper plays to win, period.

I usually get my Keeper wins through wiping out the investigators. Looking over my logs, I saw 3 investigator wins (including first play where had no idea on the Events, since as per the rulebook you're not meant to read them in advance), 1 draw and 11 Keeper wins.


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#6 Julia

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 06:04 AM

Dam said:

What the...? There is another way to play other than gunning for the investigators from the word go? If so, I certainly would never bother with it. Keeper plays to win, period.

::rofling:: yeah, I know you'd have said that. I was tempted to say "What I mean with "aggressive Keeper"? Well... playing Dam-style" ::laughter::

Dam said:

I usually get my Keeper wins through wiping out the investigators. Looking over my logs, I saw 3 investigator wins (including first play where had no idea on the Events, since as per the rulebook you're not meant to read them in advance), 1 draw and 11 Keeper wins.

Hm. You played a little more than me; at the moment we are 10 Keeper wins, 0 losses. I'd love to know something more about your 15 games. Are they logged at BGG? Just to know  if you played several times the same adventure with the same guys or what


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#7 Tromdial

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 06:05 AM

I really think it depends, but I will say that I must have played nearly, if not, 50 times as Keeper. I am undefeated, because not only have I pushed since Day 1, but our group also uses the variant where the Keeper has the skill point tokens for each investigator player playing. A decent amount of the time I've never had to use those tokens too.

However, when someone else pushes as Keeper and I am the investigator, I can win it half the time. It depends which investigator I play and how lucky I can get on top of my skill. Sometimes it's impossible, and other times the window of opportunity presents itself and I go for the off-chance of winning. If that screws up and there is no other way to win reasonably, I see if I can't outlast the Keeper via the Event deck and earn a tie game or a win if the Keeper had to kill us before time was up. Sometimes all scenarios when the Event deck is up are guaranteed losses for the investigators, so as you continue to play that tactic, you will see how to tackle the scenario for the next time. I have beat the Fall of House Lynch a couple of times, the Inner Sanctum a few times, beat 'Til Death Do Us Part once, and the first time playing ever Season of the Witch. I have such a low win amount only because I usually Keep and hardly ever get to play as an investigator, but when I do, players find me a strong asset in their party. I have several wins with tie games too. I have found Blood Ties, Classroom Curses, and Silver Tablet to be inexhaustibly difficult, but I have come very close to winning (one turn away or one damage away in any case). Green-Eyed Child I have seen beaten before too, but I was turned by the Keeper, so I lost that with him. One other thing I recall doing is the more you play this game, you are rewarded with knowledge, as such, there is for some levels a 33% chance you simply must escape when the Objective is revealed to win, and I have gambled and won that way too with instead of pursuing the Objective running willy-nilly back to the start (and it is not as easy as you'd think camping the starting space).

Besides playing with the indispensable McGlen and his dynamite, Joe Diamond, Harvey Walters, and Kate Winthrop are some of my winning characters. I also use Ashcan Pete and Jenny Barnes if I need some more brute strength. Sister Mary is good if you plan on delving a map that must target you a lot, and the only one I can think of without getting cards out is Classroom Curses. The other girl is good if you plan on Binding monsters to sneak past or stop beastly pursuers. Kate Winthrop is best played mid-game, when one of your initial investigators has been killed off. This is because some of the clues should have been found by now, so what you do next is when she comes out and it is too much work to go for another clue, roll her Luck and +2 for every clue you found to READ the Objective (not reveal). That way you can begin prepping a battle plan to win or just throw your hands in the air and accept your doom.

The main thing to keep in mind is as an investigator is that you can win some and lose some, but you must work hard, pick yourself up when you lose, and press on for that win. It is doable.



#8 Julia

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 06:42 AM

Tromdial,

thank you for the really exhaustive answer ::smiling:: It's very interesting for me to hear that you're more or less 50-0 as a Keeper (not so sure what you meant by gaining skill points as a Keeper, though). I'll try to focus on the Scenarios you won the most, maybe working with the investigators this time (even if I must confess I'm strongly tempted by playing a couple fo games with you, and comparing our styles ::laughter::)

I guess the key point is a good synergy and a continual movement across the board. Too often I've seen my players spending a couple of turns trying to open the same lock, and, later in the game, being in the wrong position of the board, without having anything to do but spending all their turn moving to reach different rooms. But still. Let's see. And thx :-)


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#9 Tromdial

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 07:05 AM

Julia said:

Tromdial,

thank you for the really exhaustive answer ::smiling:: It's very interesting for me to hear that you're more or less 50-0 as a Keeper (not so sure what you meant by gaining skill points as a Keeper, though). I'll try to focus on the Scenarios you won the most, maybe working with the investigators this time (even if I must confess I'm strongly tempted by playing a couple fo games with you, and comparing our styles ::laughter::)

I guess the key point is a good synergy and a continual movement across the board. Too often I've seen my players spending a couple of turns trying to open the same lock, and, later in the game, being in the wrong position of the board, without having anything to do but spending all their turn moving to reach different rooms. But still. Let's see. And thx :-)

Yes, constant flow of movement is essential to survival. If it's just me playing as an investigator, I go with Joe Diamond and/or McGlen. Joe Diamond is incredible for picking up everything on his merry-way, and even if he dies, someone can still pick up his Magnifying-Glass later; same with McGlen and his dynamite. I also always go with high Willpower, as it is almost always the most practical. When the Keeper can't give you sanity damage via rolls and you are packed to the teeth with weapons, it ALMOST puts you even with the Keeper.

The variant is in the back of the main booklet on pg. 26 and is titled "Monster Skill Points" as an Optional Rule.

As Keeper, I have had at least two very close calls, where it was only a stun token or one movement short of winning, whether it be cutting off a Shoggoth and blasting him or just simply escaping.



#10 Tromdial

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 07:37 AM

Julia said:

...I must confess I'm strongly tempted by playing a couple fo games with you, and comparing our styles ::laughter::)

I start a new job Monday and I work 60-70 hours a week. Never worked a factory job before but this one seems like the cleanest and most professional work environment. Depending how exhausted I am or if I slowly build enough of a tolerance against exhaustion, I don't see why we couldn't have one of us be Keeper while the other end of the post/email control the Investigators.

What it would entail is the Keeper side sets up everything completely and the Investigator does nearly the same, informing the Keeper player which characters are being used and what starting cards so they may be set-up on the Keeper's table; in the meantime, the Keeper informs the investigator player(s) which Action cards are disclosed for the scenario and what the top-back card is on each room of the map, i.e. Hallway 2 has a regular exploration back, The Laboratory has a Lock card, the Graveyard an Obstacle card, etc. etc. so that the investigator player has a full map to plan and explore. Because everything is face-down for the Investigator anyways, basically turns are back-and-forth Q&A discovery, i.e. "Joe Diamond moves into Hallway 2 and uses his Magnifying Glass to explore. What does he find?" So hundreds of Chess-like posts/emails would have to be sent back-and-forth, but also it is a session that could casually and patiently be done in a couple week's time. If you are interested in that, then we could opt for a map and see how it works out.

Also I notice you have Arkham Horror create-a-stuff as links, Julia, at the bottom of your posts. Do you create your own Mansions maps or plan to? I have one almost completed and am eagerly awaiting the revised edition of Forbidden Alchemy to do an homage to a horror series that I adore.



#11 Dam

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:20 AM

Julia said:

Hm. You played a little more than me; at the moment we are 10 Keeper wins, 0 losses. I'd love to know something more about your 15 games. Are they logged at BGG? Just to know  if you played several times the same adventure with the same guys or what

www.boardgamegeek.com/plays/thing/83330

Additionally, if you look at the investigators used, you'll see that each investigator has been featured about the same number of times as another. This is due to the normal approach (for me) of setting aside any investigator that has been used until all the investigators have been in a game, then the full cast is once again available. Random investigators instead of picking investigators at times as well.


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#12 Julia

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 11:53 AM

Tromdial said:

Yes, constant flow of movement is essential to survival. If it's just me playing as an investigator, I go with Joe Diamond and/or McGlen. Joe Diamond is incredible for picking up everything on his merry-way, and even if he dies, someone can still pick up his Magnifying-Glass later; same with McGlen and his dynamite. I also always go with high Willpower, as it is almost always the most practical. When the Keeper can't give you sanity damage via rolls and you are packed to the teeth with weapons, it ALMOST puts you even with the Keeper.

The variant is in the back of the main booklet on pg. 26 and is titled "Monster Skill Points" as an Optional Rule.

As Keeper, I have had at least two very close calls, where it was only a stun token or one movement short of winning, whether it be cutting off a Shoggoth and blasting him or just simply escaping.

Agreed. Joe is impressive with his Magnifying Glass. It still requires a little wisdom on how to use it: trying to focus on a series of single-spaced rooms , so he can explore both of them in the very same round. Something that my friends seem not to get properly (the only time he could have explored two rooms in a row in our latest game, he spent his second action to read a tome) ::laughter::

Also, thanks for stressing the Willpower thing. I thought so, but I never played as an Investigator, so I couldn't be certain about it.

And ok, optional rule. I never studied the section of optional rules, we don't play that often (more or less once / month) and we use only the core rules


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#13 Julia

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:16 PM

Tromdial said:

start a new job Monday and I work 60-70 hours a week. Never worked a factory job before but this one seems like the cleanest and most professional work environment. Depending how exhausted I am or if I slowly build enough of a tolerance against exhaustion, I don't see why we couldn't have one of us be Keeper while the other end of the post/email control the Investigators.

What it would entail is the Keeper side sets up everything completely and the Investigator does nearly the same, informing the Keeper player which characters are being used and what starting cards so they may be set-up on the Keeper's table; in the meantime, the Keeper informs the investigator player(s) which Action cards are disclosed for the scenario and what the top-back card is on each room of the map, i.e. Hallway 2 has a regular exploration back, The Laboratory has a Lock card, the Graveyard an Obstacle card, etc. etc. so that the investigator player has a full map to plan and explore. Because everything is face-down for the Investigator anyways, basically turns are back-and-forth Q&A discovery, i.e. "Joe Diamond moves into Hallway 2 and uses his Magnifying Glass to explore. What does he find?" So hundreds of Chess-like posts/emails would have to be sent back-and-forth, but also it is a session that could casually and patiently be done in a couple week's time. If you are interested in that, then we could opt for a map and see how it works out.

Also I notice you have Arkham Horror create-a-stuff as links, Julia, at the bottom of your posts. Do you create your own Mansions maps or plan to? I have one almost completed and am eagerly awaiting the revised edition of Forbidden Alchemy to do an homage to a horror series that I adore.

First of all, break a leg with the new job :-)

Your offer is very tempting (and kind), but I'm afraid there are some technical problems that, at least for now, could be overwhelming. I think you're American, so basically the first, big issue, is the time zone. I think that when you're at home from work, I'm sleeping. And with the 60-70 hours / week job you have, and my "normal" 50 hours / week job + university, the only "free zone" would be on Sunday (and it's very rare I have a whole Sunday for games). So, our games could easily last three / four months, and sadly this is clearly not feasible (I cannot - no room at home - leave a game for such a long time on the table)

Maybe in the future (there is a small chance I'll leave my country in not too a distant future, let's see...)


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#14 Julia

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:18 PM

Dam said:

 

www.boardgamegeek.com/plays/thing/83330

Additionally, if you look at the investigators used, you'll see that each investigator has been featured about the same number of times as another. This is due to the normal approach (for me) of setting aside any investigator that has been used until all the investigators have been in a game, then the full cast is once again available. Random investigators instead of picking investigators at times as well.

Thanks for the link and the clarification Dam! I'm gonna skim your reports now!


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#15 Tromdial

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 01:11 PM

Julia said:

And ok, optional rule. I never studied the section of optional rules, we don't play that often (more or less once / month) and we use only the core rules

Yeah, it's just an optional. I believe if you want players to have a slightly easier time getting their wins in, do not use that option. I've used it from the very beginning and it may explain why I am undefeated; however, my friends have also Keeped and I taught them to use the same variant.



#16 Tromdial

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 01:16 PM

Julia said:

 

First of all, break a leg with the new job :-)

Your offer is very tempting (and kind), but I'm afraid there are some technical problems that, at least for now, could be overwhelming. I think you're American, so basically the first, big issue, is the time zone. I think that when you're at home from work, I'm sleeping. And with the 60-70 hours / week job you have, and my "normal" 50 hours / week job + university, the only "free zone" would be on Sunday (and it's very rare I have a whole Sunday for games). So, our games could easily last three / four months, and sadly this is clearly not feasible (I cannot - no room at home - leave a game for such a long time on the table)

Maybe in the future (there is a small chance I'll leave my country in not too a distant future, let's see...)

np. It would take a lot of patience to perform but I thought I'd offer that. When you do have some free time, ask again and I will let you know.

Also, I need to be dealt damage first before you can play the Broken Leg trauma card



#17 el Igore

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 01:22 PM

Julia said:

 Agreed. Joe is impressive with his Magnifying Glass. It still requires a little wisdom on how to use it: trying to focus on a series of single-spaced rooms , so he can explore both of them in the very same round. Something that my friends seem not to get properly (the only time he could have explored two rooms in a row in our latest game, he spent his second action to read a tome) ::laughter::

Hey Julia,

I think I have to correct you on that.

When I read the rules on Magnifying Glass right, you have to use the additional action right after the first explore action. When you want to explore two adjacent rooms, you have to move after the first explore and this move would be your additional action. And since you allready used your first action for exploring, you can't explore the second room.

Or am I reading the card wrong?



#18 Julia

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 01:37 PM

Tromdial said:

np. It would take a lot of patience to perform but I thought I'd offer that. When you do have some free time, ask again and I will let you know.

Also, I need to be dealt damage first before you can play the Broken Leg trauma card

::laughter:: thx!


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#19 Julia

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 01:40 PM

el Igore said:

Hey Julia,

I think I have to correct you on that.

When I read the rules on Magnifying Glass right, you have to use the additional action right after the first explore action. When you want to explore two adjacent rooms, you have to move after the first explore and this move would be your additional action. And since you allready used your first action for exploring, you can't explore the second room.

Or am I reading the card wrong?

Nope, you're absolutely right. Sorry, I didn't cross-checked the card before answering.

Sigh. A Mansions-wiki a la Arkhamwiki.com would be great


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#20 Julia

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 01:42 PM

@Tromdial: sorry, I forgot to answer to one of your points: I still haven't created anything for Mansions of Madness. I honestly don't like the game as much as I like Arkham Horror (it's a good game, but still, too many flaws for my personal taste), and I don't have much free time to start thinking about Mansions custom material as well


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