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#1 Amaimon

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 12:14 PM

While playing with my group, we found few things that were unclear to us. If you could clarify, I would be very grateful :)

1. True Grit and Daemonic Trait - Does Daemonic Trait bonus counts for reducing Critical damage?

2. Casting Foul Cage power - it a blast with opposed WP test. 

If the Focus Power Test is an Opposed Test, the psyker must successfully pass the Test and gain more Degrees of Success than at least one of his opponents to activate the power.

Does that mean that if the psyker wins opposed test with one of three guardsmen in radius of the spell, all three are affected by foul cage (because the power activates,and all are in blast radius), or only the one that failed the test?

3. Does Size speed bonus counts for dodging blast weapons/spells? Or only Ag

4. Rounding - in case of mighty shot, unnatural characteristics etc. Do you round up or down ?

Thanks for help, and sorry if I made any mistakes :)

 

 

 



#2 Amaimon

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:27 AM

You guys? Anyone? Are these formulated wrong, or you simply dont know the answer?



#3 Nathiel

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:13 PM

 

1. True Grit and Daemonic Trait - Does Daemonic Trait bonus counts for reducing Critical damage?

-- Since it works the same as Unnatural Toughness and True Grit doesn't say it's only the natural Toughness Bonus then I'd say yes.

2. Casting Foul Cage power - it a blast with opposed WP test.

If the Focus Power Test is an Opposed Test, the psyker must successfully pass the Test and gain more Degrees of Success than at least one of his opponents to activate the power.

Does that mean that if the psyker wins opposed test with one of three guardsmen in radius of the spell, all three are affected by foul cage (because the power activates,and all are in blast radius), or only the one that failed the test?

-- I'm realy not sure and suggest using the rules question link at the bottom of the page to get an official answer.  (then please post it on the board so we all know.)

3. Does Size speed bonus counts for dodging blast weapons/spells? Or only Ag. 

-- Also not sure. I could see a case being made either way.

4. Rounding - in case of mighty shot, unnatural characteristics etc. Do you round up or down ?

-- Standard math says round up when you have a .5. Also it mans you get a bonus if for some reason you have a natural bonus of 1 (possibly due to other effects giving you a penalty to the base characteristic.)

(Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I thought it was a bunch of good questions and was hoping to see an 'official' answer poop up.)



#4 Amaimon

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 12:33 PM

 Hi! Thanks for help, just got official answer :)

Here it is :)

Hi Lukasz!

1. True Grit and Daemonic Trait - Does Daemonic Trait bonus counts for reducing Critical damage?

Yes

2. Casting Foul Cage power - it a blast with opposed WP test.
If the Focus Power Test is an Opposed Test, the psyker must successfully pass the Test and gain more Degrees of Success than at least one of his opponents to activate the power.
Does that mean that if the psyker wins opposed test with one of three guardsmen in radius of the spell, all three are affected by foul cage (because the power activat es,and all are in blast radius), or only the one that failed the test?

The former - the psyker makes one roll, and the targets each oppose it. Some might be affected, some might not.

3. Does Size speed bonus counts for dodging blast weapons/spells? Or only Ag

Just Agility.

4. Rounding - in case of mighty shot, unnatural characteristics etc. Do you round up or down ?

Always round up.


Tim Huckelbery



#5 Amaimon

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 04:39 AM

To second question, I understand it like this, correct me if I'm wrong.

Psyker casts Foul Cage power, since it is a psychic blast, it can be dodged as normal using agility. Blast radius is only used for purpose of determining who is rolling for opposed test. Then, those who failed to dodge, roll opposed test which they fail (because psyker with PR4 has 90 WP for this test), (or if they are super lucky, win and not be affected at all, and then they test again for snare). amirite?



#6 Amaimon

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 04:41 AM

Blah, the bracket should be after "at all". Didnt see edit option anywhere.



#7 Nathiel

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 12:06 PM

Ok, with this power you first do the Focus Power (opposed WP) roll. This is always first with any power since if you fail nothing happens and they do not have to use a reaction. (and sometimes 'Bad Things" may completely change what happens with the power.)

Those who do not beat the user of the power then can attempt to dodge (using their reaction) and get out of the area of effect.  If they fail this they are hit and then make the Ag(-20) test to avoid becoming immobilised.



#8 Amaimon

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 06:27 AM

 As we play, another matters come up, with which we're not entirely sure we understand correctly. 

1, Two-Weapon wielder - does making attack with both weapons (or three and so one) takes only half action?

2. Charge action - when making charge action does bonuses from charge and attack action stack? Eg Charge+20 + All out attack +30 = +50? 

3. If wielding two weapons(tails, hands), can you make any number of attacks, as normally per two weapon fighting, or just one? 

Thanks in advance :)



#9 Nathiel

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:22 AM

Charging: with the rules answer we just got on the errata thread it is a straight +10 for charging. the chart says +20 but that would be for the standard attack.  your all-out attack  on a charge would be at +40

 -The two weapon fighting/swift/lightning attack needs clarification/errata-

That said:

---------

Two Weapon Weilder Talent:
When armed with two one-handed weapons (either melee or ranged weapons), after making a Half Action Attack (this can be a Single Attack, a Swift Attack, or a Lightning Attack with a melee weapon, or a single shot, semi-auto burst, or full-auto burst with a ranged weapon), he may make a Half Action Attack following the same restrictions with the other weapon. (in effect, this allows the character to attack twice in a round; once from each of his weapons).

 

Swift Attack Talent:
If a character is fighting with a weapon in either hand or benefits from a Talent or Power which allows him to make more than one attack in his turn only one of his attacks may be a Lightning Attack and have the chance of scoring additional hits. Melee weapons with the Unwieldy Special Quality cannot be used to make Lightning Attacks.

Lightning Attack Action and Swift Attack Action:
If he is armed with two melee weapons, he may attack with both as per the rules for Two Weapon Fighting.
-And-
If the attacker is wielding a second weapon in his off hand, he may make an additional attack as part of this action. See Two Weapon Fighting on page 242.

Two-Weapon Fighting (p243 as opposed to the 242 above)
If a character with the Two-Weapon Wielder (Melee) Talent is armed with two melee weapons, he may perform a melee Attack Action (either a Standard Attack, Swift Attack, or Lightning Attack) with one of these weapons. He may then perform a melee Attack Action (either a Standard Attack, Swift Attack, or Lightning Attack) with the other weapon, with any applicable modifiers to the Test. This attack may be against any target in melee.

---------

It is unclear whether or not attacking with the second weapon is part of the half action attack or it's own seperate half action but most mentions in the book say it is seperate. It is unclear if you can do lightning attack/swift attack with both weapons but most mentions of the action say you can. What do you do if you have more than two limbs capable of attacking since you only get two half actions?  Our solution to this was to make fighting with multiple limbs/weapons a full action to use them all.  This means you can use one of them when you charge, but even if you have 4 arms and a tail you can use them all in one full action. it seems to work so far.
 



#10 Amaimon

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:03 AM

 Whoah, those are not the answers I expected, but thanks very much! 

My question three is incomplete. I meant: can you make multiple swift/lightning attacks during charge?

Using your ruling it would mean that you can't. But rules are sadly very unclear ;/ 

Our GM stated that making attack with two weapons is full action. We insisted it is half, because if you had more arms or tail it would be impossible to attack with all your appendages :P

All those questions arised, because our khorne berzerker kills all! He charges with +30 bonus (70WS) so having 100 on charge, and makes 3 swift attacks (one with his tail) is pretty much sick. His argument about allowing him to make multiple swift attacks during charge was that, if he couldn't, charging will be useless, like in most systems eg dark heresy, when he waited for enemy to charge, easily paried, and then slaughtered them with lightning attack. He would do the same in BC. 



#11 Larkin

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 12:50 PM

Amaimon said:

 Whoah, those are not the answers I expected, but thanks very much! 

My question three is incomplete. I meant: can you make multiple swift/lightning attacks during charge?

Using your ruling it would mean that you can't. But rules are sadly very unclear ;/ 

Our GM stated that making attack with two weapons is full action. We insisted it is half, because if you had more arms or tail it would be impossible to attack with all your appendages :P

All those questions arised, because our khorne berzerker kills all! He charges with +30 bonus (70WS) so having 100 on charge, and makes 3 swift attacks (one with his tail) is pretty much sick. His argument about allowing him to make multiple swift attacks during charge was that, if he couldn't, charging will be useless, like in most systems eg dark heresy, when he waited for enemy to charge, easily paried, and then slaughtered them with lightning attack. He would do the same in BC. 

As per Charge on pg235, you can make one of the following: Standard Attack (melee), Swift Attack, or All out Attack. This means you can Swift Attack with all of your weapons as long as you have the appropriate talents.

Appropriate Bonuses:

Charge +10 (As per Errata)

Swift Attack +0

Two-weapons -20 (reductions from Ambidex and Two Weapon Melee to -10, Blade Dancer to +0)

Frenzy +10 (you did say he was a Khornite) and Berserk Charge +10 (Changes the normal charge from +20 to +30, so it's pretty clear that this is an extra +10)

A bit much? Not really as that's 3 Tier 1 Talents, 2 Tier 2 Talents, 1 Tier 3 Talent (+1 for Lightning Attack), 4 WS advances and starting with maxed WS, AND a fortuitous mutation. That's a LARGE investment of EXP even if your Khorne Aligned the whole time. That guy SHOULD wreck someone on a charge.

Your GM just needs to be a bit more creative in what he throws you up against. The easiest way is to set a heavy weapons team in a place that cannot be charged to. That would shut down the Berserker quick.



#12 Amaimon

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:15 PM

 Yeah, thats why he wants a jump pack. We use points buying system instead of rolls, that way you can make any character you want. He bought only two advances to ws, other bonuses were martial prowess and perfection. He's got mutation from power armour customization - remnants of mutation. 

I play apostate, and other friend has psyker, so the SM takes most of the enemies on himself. He decimates hordes on charge, kills most enemies in one/two hits. 



#13 Nathiel

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:32 PM

With the new errata it looks like he's back to waiting to be charged. 



#14 Larkin

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:25 PM

Nathiel said:

With the new errata it looks like he's back to waiting to be charged. 

How so? Latest I've read you get to make Swift/Lightning attacks with all the appropriate weapons you have as one half action. And Charge allows you to make a Swift Attack as part of it's action.



#15 Amaimon

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:02 PM

 Oh snap! Charging is useless once again! You can't even make furious assault. my god. 

I'm dissapointed with this errata. I've been waiting long for this and I feel I'm not satisfied. It's good they adressed heavy weapon issue. But what about two-weapon wielder? Does it take full or half action to attack with both weapons? I'd go with talent description - two half actions. 

And the thingie with lightning claws. It appears that it applies to razor sharp as well. If you hit well enough, all your hits would benefit from razor sharp not just those that got degrees of succes. (2?4? don't remember, doesn't matter)



#16 Reverend mort

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:14 AM

Amaimon said:

 Oh snap! Charging is useless once again! You can't even make furious assault. my god. 

I'm dissapointed with this errata. I've been waiting long for this and I feel I'm not satisfied. It's good they adressed heavy weapon issue. But what about two-weapon wielder? Does it take full or half action to attack with both weapons? I'd go with talent description - two half actions. 

And the thingie with lightning claws. It appears that it applies to razor sharp as well. If you hit well enough, all your hits would benefit from razor sharp not just those that got degrees of succes. (2?4? don't remember, doesn't matter)



It's been clarified before, but two-weapon wielder takes a single half action, even with multiple limbs. Yes, this means genestealers get something to the tune of 4 attacks per round for a half action, each one a lighting attack. Enjoy! In general, my suggestion is to go with the two-weapon fighting section over the individual talent descriptions. It is internally consistent, unlike the individual talents.

As for lightning claws (and other DoS based increases) that is the faster, simpler and easier way to do it. It isn't a bunch of attacks each scoring increasing degrees of success, it's a single attack with X DoS that extrapolates more than one thing from said successes.

The option is to go "okay, I get my first attack by succeeding, so it has 1 DoS. I'm swift attacking, so the next one is at 3, so let's add some damage to that" etc etc. You would be recalculating damage for every single hit in an attack. That would take forever to resolve.



#17 Amaimon

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:31 AM

 Hey Guys! I got some new questions :)

1. How do you handle hordes with special weapons eg for every 10 guardsmen, one of them has plasma/melta gun. Do those specialists shot on their own, besides horde shooting, or do they take one of the horde shots? Or something different whatsoever. How to target those specialists (I presume at -20 to BS, but are to treat them as single guy with normal wounds, or as 1 magnitude guy, part of the horde)

2. What happens if you miss with shooting blast weapon. To you treat the shot as wasted, or do you roll on scatter table as normal?

Again thx for answers, and sorry for mistakes :)



#18 Saibot

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:20 PM

1.

a) If there are just one or two special/heavy weapons in the squad, you can just give them an additional normal attack with this weapon without any Horde Bonuses or effects. Keep in mind that this attack should be evadable as normal.

b) If there is a large number of special weapons in the Horde, you can change the profile of the Horde's attacks to reflect some sort of "average".

c)  If there is a diverse selection of various special weapons besides the default weapon the Horde has, you can come up with a number of bonus effects they can add to their Horde attack and the Horde can choose each round what bonus they want (this is the way the Stormtroopers work in Oblivion's Edge; they can either add 1d10 to damage, a few points to Pen or increase Range by 100m, only one effect can be active each turn).

 

2. By default, they just miss and have no game effect. If you do want to use the scatter diagram, I would do it like this: If the BS test was failed by 3 DoS or more, the shot went wide and has no game effect whatsoever, if the test was failed it by less than 3 DoS I would make use of the Scatter table.



#19 Amaimon

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:13 AM

 So we got our hands on Tome of Fate recently, and this is what we found:

Slaanesh power The Six Blades of Prospheron

"While this power is active, he must make two Lightning Attacks on each turn (thus spending both ofg his Half Actions)…"

I'm confused. I thought it was clarified, that no matter how many lighning/swift attacks you make, you make them as a single half action. Is this mistake, that needs to be errated or what? If thats the correct rulling what happens if someone has multiple arms talent?

If we find something more, we'll surely post it :)



#20 Herr-Ethic

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 01:30 AM

 I read this few times and everything is clear to me now.

Power says that you simply make 2 attack actions  (instead of 1 normally allowed). Since you have the right talents and 2 weapons, you make:

Example - you have a slanesh badass with a sword and an axe

 

1.st half action - left hand LA(sword) +right hand LA (axe)
2.nd half Action - left hand LA(sword) +right hand LA(axe)

For a total of 4 LA - 2 made with axe, and 2 with swords.

With a tail you would have to make also a tail LA twice ( once for each half action).

Each of those is counted with the appropiate bonus instead of  -10 for lightning attack.

 

The answer to your question is very simple - you make 2 attack actions, and both of them have to be LA. (that is why the last sentence is placed there - to make you sure, you are allowed to make 2 attack actions.
 

 






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