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Extortionist + Mimic(or Enigma Device tech) = Math Headaches


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#1 Mornash

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 01:43 PM

So I was playing as Extortionist we stumbled across an interesting issue:

Extortionist draws half of any persons cards for himself any time that another player draws cards for any reason.  Someone got annoyed that he couldn't ever draw a new hand because I would extort 4 every time, and so he played the tech Enigma Device.  Enigma Device requires that all hands be reset to 8 cards each, so the question is how does Extortionist play in to this?

An engineering major who was playing with at the time insisted it could be resolved with a simple calculus problem (heh...if only I could make since of that gibberish).  However, the rest of the group debated the issue more simply.  Which holds priority: the tech or the power?

1) Do you just go in turn left of the Enigma Device user, and let Extortionist take half of each new card set of each person before him, discard down to 8 upon his turn, and take half of each player's new card set after him?

2) Are the "extra" cards that the Extortionist would receive in this new card drawing considered immune to the tech and just add those to his/her own personal hand of 8?

3) Do all others reset their hands to 8 while the Extortionist draws an equal amount of cards draw per person that is required for them to hit 8? (Loser has 4 cards and so draws 4 more, as does the Extortionist draw 4, making it a 1:1 ratio and thus almost true to both the tech and the power)

4) Is the Extortionist power zapped in this instance, and all hands are reset to 8 without the Extortionist receiving any extra cards above his/her own personal hand of 8?

After we set a temporary house rule since we were running short on time, we also thought of how would this power play with Mimic, who has to match his/her opponents hand size? Which power has authority? Do you appeal to the timing rules to determine power priority? Do you do like option 3 above and just do a 1:1 ratio?

So no the question is...what are y'all's thoughts on this?



#2 murph

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:41 PM

 If it were my game, I'd break it down like this.

The essential function of the Enigma device is that you discard down to - or draw up to - a hand containing 8 cards.

The essential function of the Extortionist's power is that they get half of the cards drawn by other players.

So, starting with the player who fires off the Enigma Device - each player who has less than 8 cards draws a number of cards that would put them at 8.

They hold what they draw separately, and - unless they allow the Extortionist to send on of their ships to the warp - allow the Extortionist to draw half (rounding down) of the cards they just drew.

When the Extortionist's turn comes around, they'll likely have to discard cards, but if there are any players after them, they'll have the opportunity to end up as the only player with more than 8 cards.

 



#3 murph

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:59 PM

Mornash said:

3) Do all others reset their hands to 8 while the Extortionist draws an equal amount of cards draw per person that is required for them to hit 8? (Loser has 4 cards and so draws 4 more, as does the Extortionist draw 4, making it a 1:1 ratio and thus almost true to both the tech and the power)

...

After we set a temporary house rule since we were running short on time, we also thought of how would this power play with Mimic, who has to match his/her opponents hand size? Which power has authority? Do you appeal to the timing rules to determine power priority? Do you do like option 3 above and just do a 1:1 ratio?

So no the question is...what are y'all's thoughts on this?

 

 

Mimic "As a main player, before encounter cards are selected [Planning phase], use this power. If your opponent has more cards in hand than you, draw cards from the deck until you have just as many cards in your hand."

For Mimic vs Extortionist, I think you save yourself some hassle by viewing Mimic's hand matching as a point in time. There is one drawing 'event' for Mimic, not a rolling series of draws to reach a number. At the beginning of the planning phase, Mimic determines the difference between their hand and the Extortionist, draws accordingly, and the Extortionist takes their cut (if they are allowed).

So, Mimic with 4 cards is attacked by Extortionist, who has 8 cards. During the planning phase, Mimic draws 4 cards and Extortionist takes 2 of them (assuming Mimic does not allow the Extortionist to send one of Mimic's ships to the warp). Mimic ends up with 6 cards, the Extortionist has 10 - and play resumes as normal.

The timing is the same regardless of whether Mimic is offence or defense, since Extortionist cannot take half of a number that hasn't been set yet. Mimic sets the number, and then Extortionist takes a cut. The reverse is not possible. 



#4 Adam

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 04:23 AM

I concur with Murph on all points, for what that's worth.  Any event the causes card draw is extortionable.  When something says "exactly" it is just specifying a limit to the initial draw/discard effect, then the draw happens, then it's extorted.  In the case of Enigma Device, Extortionist will still have to discard down to 8 per the card when his turn arrives, but he can extort players after him, too, and gain some cards.  Should work out very well, actually, as it'll be an opportunity for him to dump cards he might wish he hadn't drawn.  Should be a great Tech for him to use in an 8P team game, too!






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