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Pondering Meltas


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#1 Gaire

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:46 AM

 Like many of you, I find that Meltas lack a certain... punch when it comes to vehicular combat. The idea of having meltas halve their opponent's armor at close range instead of doubling penetration does have some merit, but that seems to imply some flaw in the armor instead of the power of the melta. When I was in the shower this morning, I was tooling around with the idea of the Razor Sharp quality. Obviously, a melta blast isn't literally razor sharp, but I believe it has the same sort of cutting power that razor sharp simulates. My question is this: would stacking razor sharp and the 'double pen at short range' rule be overpowered, and how would you stack them? Would two or more degrees of success at short range yield (using base penetration 12) penetration 36 or 48?



#2 Thebigjul

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:23 PM

Hi,

I'm already using the razor sharp trait for melta in my game when at short range or for melta bomb. It work well for my players.

And the meltagun become a real tank killer with the difficult choice to be really close from armored tanks.



#3 Kshatriya

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 02:37 PM

Gaire said:

 The idea of having meltas halve their opponent's armor at close range instead of doubling penetration does have some merit, but that seems to imply some flaw in the armor instead of the power of the melta.

There is a flaw in the armor using that rule. It's called "unabel to stand up against superheated gases because it's not specifically designed to do so." Sorta like how Thunderhawks aren't subject to the melta rule because they ARE designed to undergo re-entry and thus are designed to stand up to superheat and be fine.



#4 ddunkelmeister

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 10:02 AM

Gaire said:

Would two or more degrees of success at short range yield (using base penetration 12) penetration 36 or 48?

 

I'm inclined to suggest the precedent set by powerfists and similar wargear. Don't "double the double," just stack on the basic pen again (so, 36). That way, it carves through most armor, but really tough vehicles like land raiders will still get some damage reduction.

 

Your mileage may vary.



#5 Face Eater

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 12:52 PM

I was considering using the old and new rules, at short range double pen and add 1d10 damage.



#6 Alekzanter

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:10 PM

Something we've been playtesting…

Melta and Plasma gunners have specialized roles, whether they're knocking out heavy armour (tanks, flyers, etc.), or taking out heavily armoured infantry (Power/Terminator armour, Crisis Suits, Necrons, huge Tyranid gribblies, etc). Those who use these weapons train specifically in their use, and the better skilled they are the better results they derive.

Melta weapons: For each 3 DoS (to a max of 9 DoS) on the BS Test to hit add the Pen to the Damage, and double Pen at Short Range. So, for example, a Meltagun (Pen 12) that hits at Short Range simply dounbles its Pen (24), and a Meltagun that hits at Short Range with 3-5 DoS adds the Pen (24) to Damage (2d10+14 [Errata]), for a total of 2d10+38, Pen 24. It's a single-shot weapon, achieving 3 DoS is fairly easy, 6 DoS still possible, and 9DoS rarely, you'd have to be really close (which involves risk to its wielder, meaning use of cover to move in close)) for the payoff, so I see no overkill.
Eldar Fusion weapons, Dark Eldar Heat Lances, Melta weapons (including Melta Bombs), just to name a few of the weapons benefiting.

Plasma weapons: Exactly the same as Melta weapons, except the Pen is not doubled at Short Range.
Eldar Plasma weapons, Dark Eldar Disintegrators, most Tau weapons, Imperial Plasma weapons, just to name a few that benefit.

I've raised the Req of these weapons by +5.

2 Tau Fire Warrior Hordes (Mag 20) and two or three Stealth Suits with Burst Cannons (maybe one with a Plasma Rifle or Fusion Blaster)…cheeky.

After several weeks of playtesting I've noticed the following:
The Players have a healthy respect for Plasma weapons. Cover and Squad Mode Abilities have a greater significance and impact on combat game play. The Players are thinking more about the Mission and its Objectives, rather than gear and "glory hounding".

These weapons are employed with care, judiciously, rather than being used on everything, meaning Bolt weapons come to the fore, particularly pistols, and this fits the fluff quite nicely.

Please Note: We are also playtesting a House Rule for Wounds, Touhgness and Armour. However, with RAW these guidleines stand. These weapons are particularly lethal, and these guidelines reflect their lethality.

 

 


 

 

 



#7 The Russian

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 12:32 PM

I like it! A lot. Good work!

Did you also limit the ammunition those weapons had?



#8 Alekzanter

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:04 PM

The Russian said:

 

I like it! A lot. Good work!

Did you also limit the ammunition those weapons had?

 

 

The Deathwatch Core Rules indicate that a Kill Team will usually carry enough ammunition for an entire Mission, unless of course they're in a protracted engagement away from support and supply. I've always held the belief this was meant to be applied to Bolters, Bolt Pistols, and the Devastator's standard-issue Heavy Bolter (generally meaning standard Clips, not Backpack Ammo), with Grenades replenishing at the beginning of each game session.

With Plasma and Melta Weapons it doesn't make sense to carry an "unlimited" supply of pressurized, highly volatile ammunition, and I've assigned a Requisition value of 9 per Clip. Requisitioning a weapon includes its first Clip. I assign Requisition in a manner quite different from that outlined in the Core Rules, hence the seemingly low cost. For RAW Requisition I'd recommend a value of 15 per Clip.  



#9 The Russian

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:08 AM

Alright, yeah i never have infinite ammo for plasma and meltas, but i have more than one reload for it with requisition.



#10 Kasatka

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:00 AM

I think the easiest way to buff meltas would be this - use the Errata'd version of them but with an extra rule that for every 1m of range that is not currently being used from the optimal range (not max range of 4x that listed), you get 1 extra pen. So a meltagun has 30m listed for its range. If you are shooting at a target 27m away then you get 3 extra pen. This will add in so that at half range (15m) you get +15 pen added before it is doubled.


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