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#1 volanchik



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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:39 AM

Weapon analysis
This article was written to help people to understand possibilities of shop and bronze weapons and copper monsters.
I’ll try to analyze the weapon possibilities. No skills added to calculations.
At the beginning of you journey you will start without dice upgrades and with scrap weapons. At this time weapon dices really means. Red is the most powerful and blue is the weakest. Same thing with green / yellow. At this time even black dices haven’t such value as major two. E.g.: Grey Ker with the bow (3 black dices) will have average 3.3 damage +1 pierce and with the axe average damage 5.5. It’s a ridiculous for Grey Ker to use an Axe, but a good example to show dices power. Later on with better weapons and power dice upgrades heroes will be specified with 1 type of the weapon, but at the beginning “red + green” – that’s what you should be looking at. Exceptions will be done at the end of the article.

Shop items.
Best weapon to use and their combos (average damage):
# Item / 2 dice damage / 3 dice damage / Cost
1 Sword / 6.2 / 6.9 / 75
2 Walking Stick / 5.3 / 6.2 / 75
3 Axe / 7.2 / 8.0 / 100
4 Sword + Morning Star / 7.9 / 8.4 / 150
Dagger (with it 4.4 - 5.1 average damage) is absolutely useless. I cannot imagine the situation where party need those extra 50 coins and leave a hero with a dagger and not a sword. Morning Star is a pure off-hand bonus weapon. Hammer: I’m not sure you need to move monsters at this moment. At copper level there are 2 types of monsters for a melee hero: those to kill with 1 hit (except Apes) and bosses. It’s a waste of turns to make 2 hits to kill a monster. Most common monsters are: Beastman, Hell Hound 6 hits (here and later on with armor), sorcerer 7, razorwing 8. Spiders, skeletons, kobolds less than 5. Sword + dagger or sword + sword or dagger + morning star worse than those 4 variants.
So, if you start with only 1 melee hero I suggest to use the Axe. It is the only one shop weapon with green (means damage) dice which has 1 damage per surge. This hero will do major damage to a boss with power potion (average 12 with 3 black dice starting, and 11.3 with 2).
If you start with2 melee heroes (even if the second one has only 1 black dice) I suggest hero with 3 power dice to use walking stick – it will raise mobility, and average 6.2 damage is quite enough to cover almost all frequently found monsters. And another hero to use a sword + shield or sword + morning star (axe in case of low coins that needed by other heroes).

Opposed to melee there are no much choices. Two handed bow makes an unbelievably small damage (average 2.7 for 2 black dice and 3.3 for 3 + 1 pierce), that is not enough to kill even a skeleton or a kobold. Without skills or abilities that raises damage this weapon useless. Throwing Knife gives 3.1 – 3.7 damage, cheaper and only one handed, leaving a space for a shield or a melee weapon. Sling gives 4.5 - 5.2 damage but has operational range 3 spaces, with more or less normal price of 100 coins. And the only one weapon that can kill mobs in a single shot is a crossbow with 4.9 – 5.6 damage, leaving second hand for a shield, but very expensive: 175 coins with a shield. Buying chain mail to this hero will leave 25 coins what is just half of a needed potion (power or fatigue).
The only suggestion I can make here: If you have a ranger with at least 1 black dice for melee – use melee weapon until you find bronze range weapon. It comes of many things: first of all: blue dice is the lowers for damage (and middle for surges) purpose, second: 3/2 surges per damage on shop range items, third: cost of a range weapons, fourth is monsters HP. If you have pure ranger (3 dices on ranged attacks) or choose a skill to your hero that gives damage and/or range (by the way worst decision to make) then crossbow is your weapon. BUT you must kill monsters EVERY turn with such investment in you hero (melee heroes with an axe and a chain mail leaves to a party 100 coins for 2 potions and do more damage then you who bought items for 275 coins).
Of course of you have Laurel all you need is Shadow soul and a bow with power potion for oneshooting bosses. Very specific character. I presume that Borgan the Shadow could use bow also. Almost 5 damage and 1 pierce with operational range of 5 spaces quite enough to kill those nasty skeletons far away in the corner.

Blinding Light and Mage Staff gives same low damage of 4.0 – 4.6 which is not enough to kill a monster. So almost useless. Sunburst very specific. With green dice it gives operational range of 2, and 3 surges on a roll can have only Landrec or a hero with Prodigy skill (which is not the best to chose as a starting skill). In my experience I have had no cases when I had a mage standing 2-3 spaces from a group of monsters to blast them. I can imagine its use only in vanila (Landrec + prodigy + inner fire = range, damage, blast), but not in rtl. It leaves us only with one weapon to choose. Immolation has 5.8 – 6.5 damage but low range.

It is only my opinion, but having starting skills that adds damage to a heroes is not a good choice. Starting with bronze almost all weapons have 1 damage per 1 surge, and with dice upgrade you can boost your hero’s damage fast and cheap (250 for a weapon + 500 for a dice). I prefer more such skills as rapid fire, acrobat, shadow soul and swift to all other range skills, and quick casting, wind pact, boggs the rat, spiritwalker to all other magic skills. And of course Leadership, Knight, Able warrior and may be Tiger tattoo to all melee skills.

Out of this best party to start will be 2-3 melee users (means ranger to use melee, not a pure melee user), 0-1 range user, 1 magic user. It will make good damage and save money for potions. For ex: Chainmail + sword + morning star, chainmail + Stick, Leather Armor + axe, Leather Armor + immolation makes 350 coins left, which is 7 potions: 4 fatigues and 3 power.

Before the bronze I want to go deeper in monster analysis.
I’ll begin with copper monsters that can be spawned and / or exist by default on a dungeon level. Forget about Trolls and Dragons, those are very specific monsters that would be bosses, and because of that named and because of that have extra HP, armor and abilities. How to kill those is not a subject of this article. Here is the list: Bane Spiders, Beastmen, Beastmen Master, Blood Ape, Dark Priest, Dark Priest Master, Deep Elf, Ferrox, Ferrox Master, Hell Hounds, Kobold, Kobold Master, Lava Beetles, Medusae, Razorwing, Shade, Skeleton, Skeleton Master, Sorcerers. You will meet most of the time: Beastmens (with master), Dark Priest (because they are relly powerfull, and OL will summon them more often than others), Hell Hounds, Kobolds (cannon fodder), Shade (protect chests, glyphs), Skeleton (lots of them) and Sorcerers. So because of frequency meeting some monsters comes the idea of minimum hero damage. 2 hits to kill a monster or 1 it’s really matters.

Monsters for 1 hit to kill. Equal or below 6 hitpoints (HP + armor): Bane Spider, Beastmen, Hell Hound, Kobold (and master), Shade (it is a suicide killing shade in 2 attacks because of low damage), Skeleton (and master). That is almost half of all monsters. And heroes MUST choose their starting gear to kill those in 1 hit.

Monsters preferably for 1 hit using fatigue. 7-8 hits: Beastmen Master, Dark Priest, Ferrox, Lava Beatle, Medusae, Razorwing, Sorcerer. Half of them heroes will be willing to kill here and now like priests and beastmen masters.

Uniques. 10-13 hp: Blood Ape, Dark Priest Master (that’s a headache for heroes), Deep Elf, Ferrox Master. Last one just fat, but others are real ass kickers. But… 2*6 = 12. Heroes must be able to kill those in 2 hits, not 3, or even 4.
But monsters are not only figures to kill, objects to hunt for the heroes. At the start it is vice versa, it is heroes who are pray and monsters who are hunters. So we must know what can they do with us.

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Each monster has a chance of 1/6 to miss, and other chances are shown in the table. For e.g. Spiders have 16.6% to miss, 6% to make 2 damage, 19% - 3 damage, 25% - 4 damage, 22% - 5 damage and 11% - 6 damage.
So, if you are playing with Corbin or Brother Glyr you are immune almost to all monsters (assuming you bought a ring +1 armor). With 6 armor and a shield there are no chances for OL to kill you. Traps, blocks, and bosses, that what you should be afraid of (or mean combos: Dark priest master standing on the sarcophagi (+1 range +1damage), with aura of master beastmen (+1 damage) with rage card).
Some fun before bronze: Laughin Buldar with an axe and a morning star has average damage 10. Not bad for shop items eh? )
For those who want I can upload a table with all numbers (like monsters) for shop (and bronze weapons).

Finally! I really tired of those 2 surges for 1 damage thing. If in shop section melee weapons where absolute rulers, on bronze things are changing a bit. Melee get lowers boost compare to ranged and magic. On bronze ranged attacks begin to kill mobs and magic begins to be a nightmare for OL. Let’s have a closer look:

Melee (here and for range and magic first number for 2 black dices and second for 3 black dices):

Dagger: average damage 5.3 – 6.2.
Even having bleed, dagger still the most useless weapon to use. With 16.7% for 0, 33% for 1, 16.7% for 2 and 33% for 3 damage as a bleed it is still better to kill monster now, than it would probably (or may be not OL could play a card to remove bleed tokens before activating a monster with bleed) die on OL’s turn. Sell it, buy a normal bronze item, or just buy a morning star, an armor ring or at least 2 potions. Yes, if you just obtained it from the chest and a dark priest master standing near you, kill it with bleed, and then sell it to the shop. Have no ideas to use it somewhere else.

Bone Blade: average damage 7.2 – 8.0
Sword receive +1 damage with shop to bronze upgrade. Not good, not bad, right to the middle. Other weapons get more. But with a morning star it becomes average 9.2-10.0 damage or with a shield hero feels safer.

Dragontooth Hammer: average damage 9.2 – 10.0
Hammer receives maximum boost from shop to bronze: +2 damage (on pierce), I count it as 2 damage because everywhere you need to kill a monster with cumulative 12+ HP + Armor – there always be a 2 armor to pierce. So 2 pierce on a hammer = 2 damage (exceptions Named bosses with iron skin).

Leviathan – no comments, only shades to kill. In SoB with Brin's Mark it possibly could be used, but in RTL having 50% chances to miss is too much price for extra green dice. Even worse than a dagger. Sell it.

Shillelagh: average damage 5.8 – 6.8.
Spear being almost the best shop weapon get the lowest boost in bronze (+0.5 damage). Sad. If you are out of money – better to sell this one and precede using shop item.

Mace of Aver: average damage 7.2 – 8.0
I didn’t take in attention shop variant to buy because you need to kill and not to move monsters, but coming to bronze at this time OL could have a monster upgrade to silver. And even with a Dragontooth Hammer heroes won’t be able to kill those in a hit (especially beasts). At this time hit and move monster closer to a mage or kick it back on guard could be interesting. It is very simple rule: monsters from Bronze to Silver doubling their HP + armor value. Weapons from shop to bronze get from +0.5 to +2 damage. So, knockback become interesting thing. But if it is the first your loot, and you have smth good at market to buy, sell it and buy what is more valuable.

Cursed Sword: average damage 7.1 – 8.1.
Not worth It. Sell. No, no, no. No killing bosses with power potions. And no killing fat mobs. Sell it. Want a test? Average damage with power potion + morning star for cursed sword = 13.6 – 14.5. With aim it would be about 15 – 17 damage. And the Bone Blade with power potion and morning star will do average 12.3 - 13.1 damage, with aim 14-16. Now tell me, do this 1 damage extra worth 1 curse? I think not. Those +3 damage for 2 surges not works with a sword like it works with the staff because of three things: red dice have 2 times less chances for a surge than white one, “other” items for melee give 1 damage, and for magic gives 1 surge and finally staff has uber ability to kill undying. So, no chances to use. Sell it. And the last thing why should you sell it. Starting with bronze melee heroes will change weapons from time to time. In the room there are some skeletons in the corners: equip spear to kill them on battle, and on the next turn equip a bronze axe to kill smth fat. With cursed sword such tricks won’t be able to do.

I really hope people get bronze ranged weapons before OL upgrade its monsters. This will be the time of pleasure and happiness.

Axe of Returning and Falcon's Claw average damage: 4.1 – 5.0.
Still low damage, but yummy abilities, especially for claw. Also they are one handed. And have operational range of 5. Nice! Good thing to buy.

Great Bow and Magic Bow: average damage 5.1 – 5.7 and 5.9 - 6.6.
I prefer one handed weapon because of a shield. Yes, both bows hit the line of 6 damage but those 2 surges for 1 damages kills me, and 2 pierce on great bow means that damage is 3.1 – 3.7 + 2 pierce. And that is not enough to kill a skeleton! You really need it? Camon, even extra dices for fatigue won’t help you. Only ½ for power enchantment, and for 1 surge it is not always damage. As for one handed weapon extra dice means 83.3% make 1 damage. If you started with crossbow – sell those two bows. If you are Laurel – Great bow is your weapon. Some fun: Damage on shot at point blank range with aim trying to kill boss (with power potion): average damage – 6, range - 5, surges – 3, pierce 2, card 8 range. Surges = range, range = damage. 6 + 5 + 3 + 2 + 8 = 24. One shot – one kill © Warkraft II (With Born to the Bow skill you will be able to move and hit best skill to have for laurel, and Archer's Charm for +1 range +1 pierce, means +2 damage for the boss).

Dwarven Fire Bombs: average damage 6.0 – 6.8
Oh! Now we are talking about damage! Best one to have (after Claw because of unique ability that gives more overall for the party)! Just don’t forget about low range. But hey! We have almost all the times power enchantment on 2-3 black dice and comparing to bows we could almost every time add range with black dice and damage with surge.

Ripper: average damage 6.7 – 6.9.
Now that a kicker! Blue, green, yellow, 2 pierce, mini aim one handed! That all means good range and good damage. I cannot imagine a better weapon. Average damage 4.7-4.9 + 2 pierce, average range 5.1 – enough to kill almost every monster. Best combing with Gauntlets of Power to recover fatigue for unused surges (average surges – 1.9 – 2.1). Such player will move more and kill fast. Too bad if you took those +2 surges on range attack skill at the beginning. Didn’t I tell you (at shop item section) that it is not a good skill?

Backbiter: don’t even want to waste your time reading, just sell it. Average damage same as Dwarven Fire Bombs, but two handed, and weak ability not worth that curse token. Who will OL try to kill: a 5 armor thug with 16 HP or a 3 armor ranger with 12 HP, both value 4.

Coming soon…

#2 Electris



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Posted 25 February 2012 - 05:59 AM


#3 volanchik



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Posted 25 February 2012 - 08:42 AM

In short article is about:

1. Which shop weapons better to use.

2. What copper monsters are all about.

2. Which bronze weapons better to use. Buy ones and sell others.

#4 volanchik



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Posted 27 February 2012 - 05:22 AM

I really love changes in magic from shop to bronze. Shop items are really weak from the one hand and quite expensive on the other. Both weapons that have combinations with white and yellow means middle range and low damage (only kobolds and not master skeletons to kill), and other 2 weapons which have combinations of white and green have low range (average – 2). Main problem here is two surges per one damage or range. So, bronze:

Bane: average damage 5.2 – 5.7.
Weakest boost from shop variant. It has 2 major problems: no extra damage or range for surges at all, low operational range. I can imagine only small cases in which it could be used: group of low HP monsters are in 3*3 square in 7-8 spaces from you. So you declare a move + attack, and using fatigue blasting all of them. Could be used by heroes with skills like Inner Fire or Blessing and by heroes with extra damage like Mad Carthos or Landrec the wise. Also it is good used by Runemaster Thorn because of his ability. Don’t work good with adding dice for fatigue, because there are no variants to add needed range or damage. If it’s your first loot I’d sell it, if you are in the middle of a bronze, then mass attack weapon a must to have in the backpack.

Cone of Fire: average damage 5.1 – 6.0.
Now that a must have! Same damage as Bane, but better operational range. Much better covering area with breath template, possibilities to hit monsters even without line of sight and 1 damage per surge makes it almost the best weapon to have. Combing with every Hero (meaning special abilities) and with every skill (except inner fire because of no use range on breath template). Average damage could be compensated with added dices for fatigue (which in case of magic users up to 5).

Crystalize: average damage 5.2 – 5.7 + 4 pierce.
With ability like this means for you monsters are without armor and with average damage of 5 it quite enough to kill almost every copper monster (except unique ones, see monster chapter). But this weapon isn’t flexible at all. Magic users have highest chances for surges. First it is white dice that have 4/6 chances (or 4/5 without miss result) for a surge. Second it is skills that give surges, and third it is other item that gives 1 surge. And with this weapon most of the times you’ll need to spend 1 surge to gain 2 pierce and throw away others, because of no use. And for the good armored bosses, some of them has ironskin. It has only ½ benefits from power dices for fatigue (only power enhancements work), so bad used with power potion. Better than any shop item because of higher average damage, but I don’t think this is the weapon you want to buy. Yes, keep it if it comes from the chest, just not sure about buying. As for me, flexibility is everything.

Pacify: average damage 4.0 – 4.6.
Low damage, 2 surges for 1 extra damage, make this weapon just a supporter. Actually it is 1 damage better then shop item. Not much to say, bad one to have. Becomes of some use when OL upgrade its monsters, but at copper level better to kill then to stun. Stun is not working on guard, so it is couldn’t be used for defense either. Don’t buy it from shop and sell it if it comes at the beginning. Possible use in the middle of bronze where stuns could be better then hits (not kills because of raised monsters HP).

Screaming Eagle Staff: average damage 4.0 – 4.6.
Low damage and 2 surges for 1 extra damage. I just wondering how breath and Water Pact works together? Without damage skills this staff is useless. Who are planning to kill with those 4 damage? Kobolds? You can wear chain mail with it, but not a Mana Weave. I think it is the worst bronze thing after all. Sell it.

Staff of Punishment: average damage 7.0 – 7.8.
Now we are talking about damage! And each extra dice would give us 1 damage in 83.3% chances. This weapon don’t care about monsters HP or armor, boss or no boss, just pure damage. With Mana Weave, 3 fatigues and a power potion it makes an average 15.0 damage roll. Impressive! That is a thing to buy and to use. Best thing for a hero and a nightmare for OL when magic user has both weapons in his disposal: Staff of Punishment and Cone of Fire. With spiritwalker skill you become a thick nail hammered in OL’s head.

Staff of the Grave: average damage 7.1 – 8.1.
My favorite weapon. Yes, you become a target because of that +1 curse, but with such ability… I’m not forcing you to use it instead of Staff of Punishment, because damage almost the same and rises only with extra dices (like power potion) but when I want to kill a monster with undying I want to kill it for sure, and those 33.3% chances to resurrect is the pain to my brain.

Other items or what should I buy when I have empty pockets and wide offer? To buy or not to buy, that is the question.
You just fled from the first level of your first dungeon, you got 500 coins and you are at Tamalir. Two heroes need healing (temple power will be enough) and one goes to a shop. Let’s imagine what they could buy there. I’ll analyze all possible items.

Curse Doll – since curse tokens are effect tokens you can remove those from you. You can do it in situation where a melee hero equipped both cursed sword and cursed shield. Or when a magic use with cursed staff received additional curse token while killing master dark priest. Worth only in the middle of copper, otherwise gold is more valuable to heroes now.

Ring of Protection – quite good investment. I suggest to buy it as soon as possible. But don’t try to buy it from start (when you buy starting gear), it will leave you without potions that are needed more at the start of your journey.

Ghost Armor – to be honest we didn’t use it at all. First it is only rangers and mages to use (because almost all melee use chainmail), and second is spending fatigue means stop progressing. I’d prefer a 2 value point cost of a mage who spent fatigue and have done smth good then saved leaving lots of monsters harassing dungeon level. Also it counts for other items limit. With the price of 150 it could be bought at the start to have more protection for some heroes. Best used with Leadership skill in play, allowing to rest heroes on their turn. I’d say if you have a Leadership in play – buy it. For heroes with 5 fatigues it means cheaper healing with fatigue potions than healing potions.

Remove Curse – never used it at copper levels ))

Belt of Strength – not as good as Archer's Charm or Mana Weave, because it adds damage that is not needed most of the times. With average damage of 10 and 2/3 of all monsters has 7-8 HP, where are you going to spend this +1 damage? As for range and mana “other” items helps to break the 6 damage barrier, this belt adds damage in ½ cases. Good one to keep, but probably better to sell for smth better at the beginning and not to buy until deep copper. If you have 1 melee user, don’t buy it at all, and sell as soon as you get Ring of Quickness. Because second other item will be Ring of Protection, leaving us no place for the belt.

Archer's Charm – good thing to buy. Rangers have low damage and it good combing with crossbow and a dwarves fire bombs. Good investment because it adds both: needed range (for blue + green dices weapon) and 1 pierce, which means 1 damage.

Mana Weave – best one of 3 other items that gives damage. This is because where melee and range receive just 1 damage, on magic items it could be +1 damage on breath template (where white + yellow dices and damage is just not enough) or +1 blast radius, or +2 damage on cursed staff. I’d buy every time I have a chance.

Crystal of Tival – don’t sell if comes from the chest, don’t buy if comes from the shop. Too expensive to heal on buying and vice versa lots of healing (and fatigue!!) for 125 coins to sell. Could be sold at the beginning if top armor/weapon is in trade.

Gauntlets of Power – nice thing. But… At the beginning there won’t be 2 surges left from a roll. Melee heroes have smallest chances for surge, and range and magic heroes use surges for damage. So when to buy? First of all it is best combo for the Reaper. Since Reaper cannot spend surges and you’ll have almost every time 2 surges on a roll this means extra fatigue every turn in which you make an attack. Second, it could be used with Crystalize. Since there is no need more than 1 surge at this weapon a mage with 3 power dice would almost always have extra 1-2 surges to spent (2-3 with mana weave). Melee users will benefit only with mastery skill (which is not the best to start with) because melee attack with 2 black dices average chance to have surges are: 0 surges – 14.8%, 1 surge – 32.1%, 2 – 25.9%, 3+ – 10.2%. Yes, you can use a dagger (or even a morning star) as off-hand weapon for 1 extra surge, but main weapon would be a sword with low damage vs axe. What do you need more? +2 damage on a roll, or +1 fatigue? It is up to you to decide. So, this item has very good ability, because fatigue means flexibility and mobility, but works only in the middle of a copper. So don’t buy at the beginning, but don’t sell at the beginning and try to survive until other items to use with. For the Landrec the wise this means +1 wound recovered every round he hit a monster. 2 surges = 1 fatigue = 1 wound cancelled with the Ghost Armor.

Pack of Holding – nice thing for middle copper, allowing you not to keep in mind that heroes has only 3 places in their backpacks. As for me I’d sell it in the beginning (but my friends won’t allow me to do), and don’t buy at shop. And vice versa at the middle-end copper. Buy it from shop and don’t sell if it comes from a chest.

Ring of Quickness – Absolute winner on category “Bronze Other Items”. Buy as soon as possible! Time is money, and +1 move for a Corbin worth it. Preferably for melee users, because they always need those extra spaces to move, and has lowest fatigue rating to other characters.

So what to buy:
1. Absolutely must: From weapons: Staff of the Grave, Cone of Fire, Staff of Punishment, Bone Blade (only if you have shop sword to replace), Dragontooth Hammer, Dwarven Fire Bombs, Falcon's Claw, Ripper. From Armor: Plate Mail, Heavy Leather Armor, Ring of Protection, from others: Ring of Quickness, Mana Weave.
2. When you have some extra coins to spare: from weapons: Bane, Crystalize, Bone Blade, Mace of Aver, Axe of Returning, Magic Bow (if nice to combine with heroe’s ability and/or skills). From armor Skull Shield, Elven Robe, Ghost Armor. From others: Archer's Charm, Belt of Strength, Gauntlets of Power, Pack of Holding (if lots of money to spare).
3. If you are McDonald: everything else.

Investment in Plate mail and Heavy Leather Armor better than in Ring of Protection because ring is a shop item and you can buy every time you want, and ring is other item, leaving only 1 space for other items to use.

#5 Corbon



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Posted 27 February 2012 - 02:00 PM

volanchik said:

I just wondering how breath and Water Pact works together? Without damage skills this staff is useless. Who are planning to kill with those 4 damage? Kobolds? You can wear chain mail with it, but not a Mana Weave.


Sure you can use a Mana weave with the Staff, just not with the chainmail. There are only two chainmails, so there won't always be a chainmail left for a wizard with this staff.

Breath (staff) and Water Pact knockbacks all figures affected (under the breath template). The skill gives the hero Knockback (when using a staff). So every figure affected by the hero's attack (when using a staff) will be affected by Knockback (with the usual reductions for large figures).
A common and very effective use of this staff with Water Pact is to knockback all the other heroes on the first turn in a AC dungeon (twice even), giving them a +6 space movement boost at low risk of damage.


Also, don't get too fixated on average damage. Especially for AoE weapons. A couple of extra fatigue thrown in there will make a huge difference, if necessary.

#6 volanchik



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Posted 28 February 2012 - 05:21 AM

Corbon said:


Also, don't get too fixated on average damage. Especially for AoE weapons. A couple of extra fatigue thrown in there will make a huge difference, if necessary.


Not really. Actually I tried (may be not at my best) to show flexibility of a weapon.

For example Cone of Fire is very flexible, because there are 83.3% chanses each extra black die for fatigue add 1 damage. Also every skill or item that provide surge work with this weapon. And for the Bane there are only 50% chances each extra die gives 1 damage, and no extra damage on surges, which are more often to be on mage rathen then melee (white dice, other item). Yes, with lots of surges you can blast whole room (with yourself), but you won't add damage. And for Screaming Eagle Staff those 2 surges for 1 damage would'n permit to rise damage enough to kill a 6-7 hp monster.


May be I understand game's mechanich badly because of low experience, so I will thank you much if you show me where weapons marked by me as "junk" could be in good use. I mean, not specific cases (like Landrec with inner fire and mana weave blasting eveyithing with a Bane, or a Laughin Buldar with a Stick and a morning star + ring of quickness on knight cleaning hole room), but smth general.

#7 Corbon



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Posted 04 March 2012 - 06:42 PM

volanchik said:

Corbon said:



Also, don't get too fixated on average damage. Especially for AoE weapons. A couple of extra fatigue thrown in there will make a huge difference, if necessary.




Not really. Actually I tried (may be not at my best) to show flexibility of a weapon.

For example Cone of Fire is very flexible, because there are 83.3% chanses each extra black die for fatigue add 1 damage. Also every skill or item that provide surge work with this weapon. And for the Bane there are only 50% chances each extra die gives 1 damage, and no extra damage on surges, which are more often to be on mage rathen then melee (white dice, other item). Yes, with lots of surges you can blast whole room (with yourself), but you won't add damage. And for Screaming Eagle Staff those 2 surges for 1 damage would'n permit to rise damage enough to kill a 6-7 hp monster.


May be I understand game's mechanich badly because of low experience, so I will thank you much if you show me where weapons marked by me as "junk" could be in good use. I mean, not specific cases (like Landrec with inner fire and mana weave blasting eveyithing with a Bane, or a Laughin Buldar with a Stick and a morning star + ring of quickness on knight cleaning hole room), but smth general.

I didn't say your general theories were 'wrong', just not to get too fixated on average damage.

Comments like "Who are planning to kill with those 4 damage? Kobolds?" are a bit misleading because a) you are not restricted to 4 damage, and if you need more, there is a reasonable chance of getting it, b) most heroes are going to have a damage boosting skill of some sort if they drew any (at least if the players are competent - you have 4 skills to choose from and as a mage if you turn down Inner Fire, Blessing, Wild Talent and/or Prodigy, for anything other than Quick Casting and are not Carthos, Landrec or Andira, you need your head examined, not to mention other bonuses like Mana Weave, elevation etc), c), being able to hit multiple monsters, especially monsters out of LOS, even if it takes some fatigue to get kills, can be extremely useful and d) there are a large subset of monsters which only take 5-6 damage to kill. Even without any damage bonuses, AoE can still pay for itself. Heck, you don't even need to use them. Just having AoE attacks available will often cause the OL to spread his troopers making it more difficult for him to concentrate their attacks on one hero.
It always pays to have a good chaffsweeper in the party for cleaning up bulk numbers of weaker monsters. That might be a melee hero with Cleaving and Reach, or a Ranged hero with Rapid Fire, but most commonly it is a Mage with an AoE weapon.
Consequently I wouldn't be in a hurry to sell Bane or Screaming Eagle staff unless I need the room or the money desperately and also had the Cone of Fire.

Similarly with the Hammer and Mace of Aver. If you don't have the capability to move monsters, especially once there is a silver monster upgrade out, then unless your OL is incompetent you will be punished for that lack. You should always, always, have a knockback weapon available to someone, preferably the runner. Damage dealing is a secondary consideration - getting monsters of chests and/or glyphs is what matters here.

And if you play with ToI you should also try to keep a Reach weapon available if you can. Nothing funnier than seeing a hard hitting melee hero cut off and impotent thanks to a pair of shades.

In general, I would never rush to sell spare kit anyway. Lets leave out the possibility of Crushing Blow, since it usually takes the OL a while to have the CT spare for Event treachery to buy this anyway, but anything you sell because you aren't using it is then straight back in the deck clogging it up and reducing your odds of finding the kit you really want. I prefer to hold onto kit as long as possible, and with luck drawing the bag of Holding to staff it in.

One other thing.
Ghost Armour is perhaps the best piece of kit below silver level in the game. The hero's first 400coins should be spent on Ghost Armour and RoP forthwith. However it is too expensive to start with generally, given the limitations on potion buying. You are better to buy 3 potions to start with and purhase GA during the first dungeon level.

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