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#1 whipko

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:30 PM

Can hoax discard Barroom brawler to cancel all attach roll successes after she had roll her shock roll?

 

Can Aeteros bullrush a character muitiple time as long as he have movement point left. Causing 1 auto wound each time.



#2 Katsuyori

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 07:11 PM

whipko said:

Can hoax discard Barroom brawler to cancel all attach roll successes after she had roll her shock roll?

The rules say: "...of one attack roll targeting you, after the dice are rolled"

Imho, "the dice" rolled relate to  "the attack roll", so I think the decision should be made right after the result of the attack roll is clear. That means before the shock roll. Other opinions?

 

 whipko said:

Can Aeteros bullrush a character muitiple time as long as he have movement point left. Causing 1 auto wound each time.

I think so. This question never occured to me, since nobody I play with uses Astaros. He has been inofficially banned from our table.



#3 MeisterH

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:14 PM

Well, I don't think there is any rule that forbids you from bullrushing the same charcter over and over. Though in my play group we made a hous-rule that says Asteros may only Bullrush the same character once per activation.



#4 Miah999

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:55 AM

Page 17 Bull Rush section 3rd paragraph: "A character may only attempt one Bull Rush per activation."



#5 ??!

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:04 AM

But how does that rule interact with this quote from the Asteros rules: "When Asteros makes a Bull Rush, he may move through as many characters as he has movement for." So he makes one Bull Rush through several characters. Why not one Bull Rush several times through the same character?



#6 Katsuyori

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:20 AM

Miah999 said:

Page 17 Bull Rush section 3rd paragraph: "A character may only attempt one Bull Rush per activation."

That explains how often one given character can bullrush (active). Astaros already breaks this rule with his special ability. The question here is: how often can a given character be bullrushed (passive) in one activation/turn. And since there is no rule that really explains I assume she can be bullrushed as often as the activated char can, limited by his movement points. This fact is not only important for Astaros. One could also bullrush Hoax more than one times in one  activation to make her visible. 



#7 Miah999

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:50 AM

Oh I see...

As long as a different active character is preforming the Bull Rush, the same target may be Bull Rushed as often as possiable.

I.E.

Stoss v. Hoax... then later...

Eva v. Hoax... then later...

Karl v. Hoax... etc. all in the same game turn.

 

As for Asteros, he may move through as many characters as he wants as long as he keeps winning the stmina duels. His special rule trumps the base rules.

I.E.

Eva, and Karl are standing in a row, with one circle between them...

Asteros makes a stamina duel against Eva, he wins, and moves to the circle between Eva and Karl...

Then Asteros must make another duel against Karl, he wins, and moves to a circle beyond Karl.

If Eva and Karl were adjacent; then Asteros would have to win both duels before he could move to a circle beyond Karl, but this is often a moot point as I have never seen Astros loose a stmina duel, except against Zor'ka or Natalya.

 

 

 

You ninja ??!



#8 ??!

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:51 AM

I think the rule Miah quoted is clear for all characters except Asteros. One Bull Rush per activation means a given character can only attempt to bull rush one character once per activation. Bull rushing the same character twice would be two Bull Rushes. So I'd say the only question is if Asteros could possibly bull rush someone several times in one activation.



#9 whipko

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:24 PM

With movement point of 7. Asteros can easily bullrush an adjacent character 3-4 times injured him 1 auto wound each time. Plus his action as an attack can easily kill an adjacent hero each turn.



#10 Katsuyori

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:55 PM

??! said:

I think the rule Miah quoted is clear for all characters except Asteros. One Bull Rush per activation means a given character can only attempt to bull rush one character once per activation. Bull rushing the same character twice would be two Bull Rushes. So I'd say the only question is if Asteros could possibly bull rush someone several times in one activation.

Exactly. But I could not find anything in the rules to prevent him doing so. So, yes, he can, according to my understanding of the rules. Good arguments against this opinion are welcome, though...



#11 ??!

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 01:06 AM

Okay, so Asteros can Bull Rush the same character several times, thus he is even more powerful than I thought he was. He really can kill an adjacent hero every turn. But who in his right mind will go near Asteros? And going one step further: Who even plays Asteros? He is so overpowered it's not even fun to use him.



#12 Katsuyori

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 01:44 AM

No one I know plays Astaros. Even self-declared power gamers shun away from him. There should be a errate about the beast soon. Looks like people just buy him to have a complete set of Tannhäuser, but that is a little bit of a waste of money :(

I guess Matriarchy could beat Astaros team in objective mode or dominion mode, since his´ team lacks one trooper and the voivoid rush comes even more to bear. They just swarm the whole map and the opposing forces just have not enough characters to stop them.



#13 ??!

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 02:08 AM

First create powerful characters, later tone them down with erratas? I kind of dislike that. FFG should rather release powerful Epic Heroes for all the other factions to even things out. That way, Asteros wouldn't be a problem any more AND we would get new Tannhäuser figures!



#14 Katsuyori

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 04:23 AM

Powerful epics like Asteros for all factions will destroy the game imho. The whole game and setup will evolve just around the leading epics. The key to victory will be reduced to kill the enemy´s epic and then wipe out the helpless remaining "ants" with ones own epic. All other characters are doomed to play secondary roles, and this is not to my taste. I saw that in WH Version XXX when all players just commanded some high costing monsters/demons/vampires pumped up with magic super items etc, and they regiments of ordinary troopers were just bought to satisfy some minimum 25 % cost role: As soon one player eliminated the most powerful unit, the game was practically over, as no existing remaining model on the field could damage your trump. We ended with banning the huge monsters because the game was rendered totally boring. I´d hate this to happen to Tannhäuser.

But I would greatly embrace epic heroes like Natalya for all faction. She is not that unbeatable. Her stats are great, but at least drop as soon she is wounded. Her equipment is nice, but not over the top like Asteros. She even got a risky item. She´s  got five rows of hp, but it´s bearable because the team looses a trooper-slot. I think she is hard, but ok. I´d  l not fee like cheating when fielding her.

By the way, anybody had a fight with an Asteros included team vs a Natalya included team? I would be interested if Asteros is such a beast that he even bests Natalya in short time. Or can she stand up to him?



#15 Moebius

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 06:10 AM

Katsuyori said:

Powerful epics like Asteros for all factions will destroy the game imho. The whole game and setup will evolve just around the leading epics. The key to victory will be reduced to kill the enemy´s epic and then wipe out the helpless remaining "ants" with ones own epic. All other characters are doomed to play secondary roles, and this is not to my taste. I saw that in WH Version XXX when all players just commanded some high costing monsters/demons/vampires pumped up with magic super items etc, and they regiments of ordinary troopers were just bought to satisfy some minimum 25 % cost role: As soon one player eliminated the most powerful unit, the game was practically over, as no existing remaining model on the field could damage your trump. We ended with banning the huge monsters because the game was rendered totally boring. I´d hate this to happen to Tannhäuser.

I agree completely. He needs to be toned down. No use for him otherwise... 



#16 Miah999

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 07:15 AM

I think Epic does not have to mean 7s in all rows, and as long as FFG keeps that in mind I think they can maintain what balence TH has.



#17 Nhoj

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 08:10 AM

 Well as I've reported before - I've played five games with Asteros on one side.  All were solitaire,  The team with Asteros won three out of five.

In my last game Hound Dog took Asteros down, through an unbelievable stroke of luck it has to be said.

I don't believe he is overpowered in story or objective mode, and I use Deathmatch (where he is ridiculously good) only to teach the game to newbies

I'm planning to make my next game an Epic versus Epic game - on one side Natalya and the heavy marines Barry, John etc - the other, the aliens from beyond team including Asteros and Itami

...... wait a minute a girl in power armour versus an alien warrior?  Maybe this idea has legs

 

-Nhoj



#18 Artemus Maximus

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 09:53 AM

damn good idea! Operation: Clash of the Titans!

technology with Natalya & Zor'ka backed up by Ramirez or Irishka (or both!) and a pair of Voivodes.

supernatural with Asteros & Itami backed up by Heizinger or Hoss (or both!) and a  Stosstruppen.

Operation: Clash of the TItans! on labirynth map...



#19 Nhoj

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:10 AM

Artemus Maximus said:

damn good idea! Operation: Clash of the Titans!

technology with Natalya & Zor'ka backed up by Ramirez or Irishka (or both!) and a pair of Voivodes.

supernatural with Asteros & Itami backed up by Heizinger or Hoss (or both!) and a  Stosstruppen.

Operation: Clash of the TItans! on labirynth map...

 

Exactly the map I was thinking of! 



#20 ??!

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 04:01 AM

Katsuyori said:

But I would greatly embrace epic heroes like Natalya for all faction. She is not that unbeatable. Her stats are great, but at least drop as soon she is wounded. Her equipment is nice, but not over the top like Asteros. She even got a risky item. She´s  got five rows of hp, but it´s bearable because the team looses a trooper-slot. I think she is hard, but ok. I´d  l not fee like cheating when fielding her.

By the way, anybody had a fight with an Asteros included team vs a Natalya included team? I would be interested if Asteros is such a beast that he even bests Natalya in short time. Or can she stand up to him?

I wasn't lobbying for an Asteros clone for every faction, only for a powerful Epic for every faction, a character that somehow has a chance to go toe to toe with Asteros. The Matriarchy already has this character, it's Natalya. I still think the other factions should get their Epic too, so that we can play Epic vs. Epic with all factions. And while I never played Asteros vs. Natalya (mainly because Asteros is collecting dust at the bottom of my box of Tannhäuser figures), I'm quite curious about that battle and try it in the next days. Natalya's team will include Zor'ka, Irishka and 2 Voivodes. About Asteros I'm unsure - maybe Reich characters as support?






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