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#1 Hurdoc

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 07:23 AM

 the game is being retooled as a competitive LCG? That would be AWESOME! Or at least if competitive design was being put in place alongside co-op (though I have no idea how it would be done).



#2 MarthWMaster

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:22 AM

Hurdoc said:

 

 the game is being retooled as a competitive LCG? That would be AWESOME! Or at least if competitive design was being put in place alongside co-op (though I have no idea how it would be done).

 

 

While it may not work with the setup as we know it from GenCon, given the significant length of the delay, they could be playtesting a variant of the same play mechanic that can work for both 2-player games, as well as co-op and team-based games. As stated in another thread, I sincerely hope that this is the reason for the delay. Not because I'm disinterested in the co-op aspect per se, but because I feel that much of the fun of constructible card games lies in the competitive sphere.

When it comes to casual play, deckbuilding is all about the challenge of outwitting your opponent before the game has even begun, by making educated guesses at the kind of deck she will build, and using that information to come up with a suitable counter-strategy. Similarly, in structured play, a deck must be engineered to weather whatever opposition is leveled against it, meaning it must be competent to challenge numerous deck archetypes while still holding its own against any one of them. Most of this plotting and fun is lost when the entire strategy of the opponent is derived from pre-designed strategy cards, and while that fact brings the focus more towards making decks that complement allying decks, there is no longer any guessing or wit involved, since your friends are going to have every reason to tell you exactly what they will be playing.

Besides, who doesn't love playing the bad guys once in a while? 



#3 herozeromes

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:10 AM

MarthWMaster said:

 

Hurdoc said: Besides, who doesn't love playing the bad guys once in a while? 

 

 

I must say, in Decipher's CCG the Dark Side was more obviously powerful in terms of the cards available, so whenever I was teaching someone to play, I would always give them the Dark Side Deck. The Light Side was more subtle, in that you had to use strategies that manipulated the deck rather than relying on the strength of cards alone. So, I would often get beat while teaching someone because I didn't have time to think about strategy when walking someone through it all. Also, I never really mastered deck building for the Light Side because I didn't play often enough to test ideas.

 

If they are re-tooling to make a PvP mode, I hope they keep that in mind as far as the balance of power. If they are roughly equal in every way, then they will have missed the mark.



#4 MarthWMaster

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:14 AM

herozeromes said:

If they are re-tooling to make a PvP mode, I hope they keep that in mind as far as the balance of power. If they are roughly equal in every way, then they will have missed the mark.

While I never played enough of SWCCG, I understand what you mean, and I agree. The WotC did something similar, in that shorter games favored the Dark Side, while longer games favored the Light Side. Light Side cards were generally stronger, with the rules compensating by making the Dark Side win all ties. While I feel the rules you're describing sound more like Star Wars, I enjoyed this mechanic because it justified the need for playing one side or the other. It would be great to see FFG implement something like this (i.e. a play difference between the Empire and Rebellion).



#5 Hurdoc

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 05:40 AM

I gather faction balancing, as difficult as it is, is not a major impediment. The larger issue is how to make a game both Co-op as well as Competitive with the same cards.



#6 I. J. Thompson

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 11:28 AM

 I'm of the mind that they shouldn't bother. They have the license to make multiple Star Wars games, and like Spalanzi (oops, that's from another thread), I feel that the Clone Wars is more suited to a pvp game. I enjoyed that the focus of this game has been to fight against the Empire with your friends and family, and I'd like to see them keep that spirit.



#7 MarthWMaster

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:07 PM

I. J. Thompson said:

 I'm of the mind that they shouldn't bother. They have the license to make multiple Star Wars games, and like Spalanzi (oops, that's from another thread), I feel that the Clone Wars is more suited to a pvp game. I enjoyed that the focus of this game has been to fight against the Empire with your friends and family, and I'd like to see them keep that spirit.

Agreed, though if they're able to make the game both without compromising any of its co-op "oomph," why not?



#8 I. J. Thompson

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:08 PM

MarthWMaster said:

if they're able to make the game both without compromising any of its co-op "oomph," why not?

That's the deciding factor, right there! 

I'd hate to see this game fall between two stools...



#9 booored

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:57 PM

maybe it is going to drawing board so we can play as the empire!


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#10 herozeromes

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 07:37 AM

I just realized something this morning, and just confirmed it. Maybe they got a new designer in who pointed out a very important key component to anything Star Wars: The Force! There is not one mention of it in the description of the game. They talk of forces, in that there are Imperial and Rebel forces, but not The Force! So, probably they've had to go through and redesign to incorporate the use of the Force? It may be something as simple as changing Cost to Deploy to Use of Force, or it could be a huge shift in the gameplay. Thoughts?



#11 MarthWMaster

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 08:28 AM

herozeromes said:

 

I just realized something this morning, and just confirmed it. Maybe they got a new designer in who pointed out a very important key component to anything Star Wars: The Force! There is not one mention of it in the description of the game. They talk of forces, in that there are Imperial and Rebel forces, but not The Force! So, probably they've had to go through and redesign to incorporate the use of the Force? It may be something as simple as changing Cost to Deploy to Use of Force, or it could be a huge shift in the gameplay. Thoughts?

 

 

While I personally loathe the idea of the Force being used to pay for costs (it makes no sense; there is nothing mystical about building and repairing ships, recruiting people for your faction, etc.), I do agree that the Force should be reflected in the game somehow, as it is an essential element of the saga.



#12 herozeromes

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:04 AM

MarthWMaster said:

While I personally loathe the idea of the Force being used to pay for costs (it makes no sense; there is nothing mystical about building and repairing ships, recruiting people for your faction, etc.), I do agree that the Force should be reflected in the game somehow, as it is an essential element of the saga.

I agree that it shouldn't necessarily be the cost portion of the game, but that it should be in there somehow. Maybe a "luck" component where the force aids you. For instance: Destiny draws in Decipher's CCG could completely change the outcome of a turn based on whether you drew a 1or a 6.



#13 MarthWMaster

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 01:43 PM

Ben Kenobi: "In my experience, there's no such thing as luck." 

XD



#14 herozeromes

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 04:09 AM

Excellent! That's hilarious.

Maybe it could be that certain character's have certain "luck" characteristics. For instance, Lando and Han would have Gambler's Luck (though, I think Han's should have something to do with piloting or smuggling) and Luke, Leia, and Obi-Wan would have the Force. Darth Vader would have a detrimental effect on those with the Force, while Bounty Hunters would have a negative effect on Smugglers and Gamblers.



#15 AnotherHorrorFan

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 09:27 AM

 It is a little sad that this is the first time I am hearing something that makes me excited about this game.



#16 redsimon

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 09:38 AM

@ AnotherHorrorFan: True, the ideas here in the thread sound way better than what we heard from FFG so far.



#17 spirit

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 09:50 AM

Well we've now heard more from ffg. 



#18 The Old Man

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 10:09 AM

I don't give a crap about Star Wars, or the game, but I think this delay shows the integrity of FFG.



#19 Budgernaut

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 10:10 AM

The Old Man said:

I don't give a crap about Star Wars, or the game, but I think this delay shows the integrity of FFG.

Is that a compliment or an insult? I can't figure out from your sentence.


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#20 Atraangelis

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 10:12 AM

The Old Man said:

I don't give a crap about Star Wars, or the game, but I think this delay shows the integrity of FFG.

 

Indeed, setting a product back shows again that they indeed try to put out quality products. Sometimes they have a bad hiccup but over all i applaud them for not pushing it to market knowing it was sub par.

Good job FFG.


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