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#1 HIGUISE

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 06:06 AM

 So i am new too the 40k universe, Rogue Trader, And have recently joined in a campaign. There are five people, Two who have vast knowledge of 40k, One of them being DM and the other just a player. DM told me i should be the Rogue Trader saying that "You'll do fine". Well i need help or advice on a situation.(I dont know if this is what this is for but here it goes)

 I'm going to sum up the important parts of the past few sessions that lead to what i need help on (hopefully to keep it short). Keep in mind my rolls got me low group income but a good ship.

 

So we start off at a port city given three days to do whatever we desire, I told the troops they may go on leave and do what they please. Our Head Psyker who knows 40k decides to take advantage of my undermined knowledge and asks what of the other Psykers (As in the warp navigators and such). Not knowing i that they don't/never leave/left the ship tell him they can do as they please. He sends them out onto the port where long story short we lose most of them either to the fact that they're dead, traumatized, or actually lost and also some city damages. At this time he must train more untrained Pyskers to take there place delaying our adventures a bit.

 Later at dinner he addresses the situation saying i owe him a large amount of money because of what had happened. I at this point decline to paying him because they way i see it though i gave them the leasure to do what they want, He ultimately decided to let them go into the port city and is responsible for their actions. He doesn't take it well say's he understands my families money problem and that i can pay him back in the future at a 40% interest in which i also decline. He says if i am no to pay he will slander/ruin my family name ext.... And gives a subtle threat that if the warp shield's just so happen to stop working who's to know what will happen to the ship and crew (Clearly daemons galore). The conversation ends with that and we move on to a distress call and other things to come.

 So i would like to ask your opinions, See wether advice can be given to help me, or even ideas to what to do if any at all, or even what you would do in this situation. ( I know this probably isn't a good example or even true but for EX: him threatening me and my crew who are men of the Emperor, He is threatening/betraying the Emperor and is a heretic and must be killed ext...)



#2 Citizen Philip

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 06:42 AM

It sounds like you are playing in a silly game, in all honesty, you seem to be making the best of a bad situation: your reactions to the astropath are entirely reasonable.  The game, from your very quick description is ludacris.  Unless you are role-playing a Rogue Trader who is intentionally naive, your character should be equipped with the common sense that the player (you) lacks, if your GM is delighted by your ignorance (player) refuse to play the Rogue Trader if this is the way you are going to be treated. 

The astropath player needs a slap in the mouth for being such an idiot.  After INTENTIONALLY sabotaging the ship, resulting in the death of vital and important crew, I would have killed him, flat out.  After this he attempts to blackmail you?!  Kill him.  And then he threatens your crew, your ship and the fate of your dynasty by sabotaging the ship while in the warp?!  Kill him, again.

Your astropath player who claims to know much about 40k, he certainly doesn't act that way, which is why I think you are playing in a silly game (since the GM is allowing this).  A psyker, any psyker, is a potential threat of daemonic incursion - he is only valuable to the Imperium for his ability to serve it, nothing more:  if he was less powerful as a psyker he would be chained to a choir (weak astropaths can combine their meager strength to improve astropathic communication) - one, he willfully destroyed - or already sacrificed to maintain the Astronomicon (the big beacon that navigators use to fly by). 

In summary:

Refuse to play the Rogue Trader, if your character is going to be treated like a punching bag by a malicious player.  Your character should be aware of reasonable social norms, and as the Rogue Trader very much aware of how your ship is run; unless you are being asked to roleplay otherwise.

The Astropath should be dead, he has crippled your ship already, and threatened blackmail and sabotage.  The only thing he hasn't done is try to kill you directly.  This behaviour is way, way out of line for any character who is suppose to be serving a Rogue Trader dynasty.

Your GM is allowing all of this to happen.



#3 HIGUISE

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 07:02 AM

 See that is all that i could think to do is to kill him, As bad as it seems and as much as a hate killing player characters. The campaign on the DM's part isn't bad but with all the early game bull that i have described to you and the short number of sessions so far is where its gotten.

As far as me playing a "naive" Rogue Trader that isnt what i was going for at all. I would say from background i made him a moderate age from what i believe of my knowledge of 40k nobles ( i believe somewhere in the 200's?). And i also believe has been a Rogue Trader for a good amount of time( i dont remember exactly how long he had said). I try my best with the knowledge i have but i mean i can't know it all specially when getting intentionally sabotaged into this so called debt that i "owe" when i don't. I personally feel as rogue trader being above many laws ( i do believe?) If being blackmailed, and threatened is basically mutiny on me in my own ship, which should be punishable by death alone, not adding all the other things that have been done.

Here's another problem. If he is the head astropath and i do kill him, Would we still be able to warp without him? still keep our shield's up without him?Or would we need a character to fill that roll in which to get places through the warp?



#4 Citizen Philip

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 07:36 AM

From your early decription, you have already lost your astropathic choir and, you mentioned specifically, your navigator: thus, you can't go into the warp.  An Astropath Transendant is your galactic radio, the Navigator is your pilot.  You could enter the warp safely without the former, but not without the latter.

For clarity, you could enter the warp without a navigator, but it is very dangerous and would take a very long time, since you could only make very tiny jumps, and you would be doing so blindly.

Your astropath has obviously fallen to some kind of foul - but not very clever warp entity.  The safe path for your dyntasy is to dispatch the astropath, and take a vacation around this planet until such time, replacements can be sent to you.  If the planet has its own astropath relay, this can be done quickly, relatively speaking: otherwise you'll need to wait for the arrival of another vessel with an astropath to either send a message, or buy/take theirs.

Only by virture of roleplaying would a Rogue Trader be expected to be so woefully ignorant on how your ship operates - this is a key element that the GM should be aware of: anything else is bollocks.  Your character, from the brief lifepath described, has not been thrust into the role of a Rogue Trader (and would never have endangered the vital operation of his vessel) - the only way this COULD have happened - is that were manipulated by a malicous psyker.  Now, if the person playing the psker is roleplaying a stupid Astropath with a deathwish - they are doing a spectacular job - and should be awared some extra experience before they are killed.

Again, this entire scenario has ocurred because of the spectacular lapse of judgement from your GM.  A player who has agreed to take the mantle of leadership for a group should never be penalized for their personal lack of background - you should be helpfully prompted by your fellow players and GM alike - not punished.

Food for thought: 

Exactly what would you be blackmailed for?  I was tricked by a psyker into my crew being killed while visiting a city?  How or why would a Psyker expet to be paid for that?

Who are they going to believe?  A Rogue Trader with over a century of experience - or some dirty mutant, who is already touched by the warp?  A psyker who, since the ship has lost vital crew, has publically threatened to kill everyone on-board by disabling the gellar field in the warp, and dooming everyone's soul to an eternity of damnation?

Tough call.



#5 HIGUISE

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 07:44 AM

 All i have to say is thank you for your response to this with such detail. you have helped me with this situation ten fold and also gave me some 40k knowledge and i couldnt ask for more.

If anyone else would like to add at anytime youre welcome, But i see what you mean with all that



#6 Citizen Philip

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 07:56 AM

Your character, a Rogue Trader is from a time very similar to what is known as the ancient regime, you are from a distinct and extremely privileged class.  You can visit http://www.lexicanum.com/ for all kinds of background on 40k: Rogue Trader, the warp, astropaths, the imperial creed, the imperium, etc.  Very well written with plenty of insight.



#7 Santiago

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:04 AM

Hinting of letting Daemons on the ship is HERESY, go to the Rogue Trader character and tell him this.The Astropath not only would ruin you but also the Rogue Trader.
The Inquisition would have a field day....just manage not to be around when this happens:P



#8 Red Bart

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 10:48 PM

Just wanted to chime in with a "death to the astropath!". Threatening either the ship, the dynasty, or the rogue trader warrants a summary execution. But a psyker voicing heretical thoughts definitely warrants summary execution (especially if the crew gets wind of a psyker-witch threatening to give the entire ship over to the warp). So your astropath must have a death wish of sorts.

However... This is an RPG and players killing other players usually does not improve the atmosphere at the table. So for the sake of keeping the peace (and fun) of all players I'll suggest another solution to the astropath problem: tell him you'll look into it and then secretly acquire a pain-glove and maybe a couple of "pain technicians" to go along with that. Jump him in his sleep, stick him in the glove, and leave him in until he is "re-educated". Another thing you might do is tell him you'll look into it and then secretly acquire a group of specially trained bodyguards (i.e. that are especially loyal to you personally and have a high resistance versus psychic influences). Then tell the astropath you've heard that the crew is planning to dispose of him for his heretical utterances but that you will guarantee his safety by assigning him a security detail (the aforementioned bodyguards). Then restrict his every move. Begin by consigning him to his quarters. Every time he wants to leave, his "bodyguards" will stop him and tell him he can only leave if you give him permission. Now not only will you know at all times where he is and what he does, but you have shown him who's boss. Instead of bodyguards you might also try to find a commisar (the king of summary executions) and make him follow the astropath around to watch for signs of heresy and mutiny.

About not having a navigator (a thing or two has already been said about this): You can travel without a navigator, but you will require star charts (which, in a relatively unexplored area like the Koronus sector, are hard to come by), and you can only make very short jumps (4 light years per jump or something like that). All in all it will make your voyage extremely slow, and more arduous. Your best bet is to take a couple of months of while you wait for replacement navigators. On the other hand missing any astropaths aboard a vessel is inconvenient but not critical. You may not be able to call home, but you are very much capable of achieving new objectives.



#9 BlackSpike

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 04:29 AM

From what you have said, you (correctly) delegated the responsibility for the Psykers to the Head Psyker.

He than failed in his Duty of Care to them by allowing them to leave the ship.

He then tries to blame you, and threatens the ship and the Dynasty.

 

While In-Character recriminations should follow, it never does a game much good to have the players at each other's throats. (Unless thats the game you want!).

 

I would have a word with the GM, and say "Look, what's going on here? I'm new to this, I delegate the decision, and he uses it to bite me on the ass?"

Who said the Psykers left the ship? The GM or the Head Psyker? If it's the GM, he should have given both you and the Head Psyker fair warning that this was a Fool move. If its the Psyker, it is HIS FAULT, fair and square. Even then, the GM might have warned him.

 

If he Psyker does insist on being an ass, get your Seneschal, or Master of Whispers on the case, and DESTORY him. Not kill, that's too easy.

Hidden Pict-recorders to have evidence of his Heresy, spread rumours of his Xeno-Loving ways, plant XenoBabe magazines in his quarters just before an audit, lace his food with drugs, let it be known that he considers a few Psykers more important than the safety of a VOID SHIP (oh, and its Lord Captain, and other Officers!) and is prepared to sacrifice it to the Ruinous Powers for petty revenge.*

 

Your Dynasty can get a new Astropath. But not from HIS House. One trade deal gone sour. One Dynasty and one Astropathic Organisation very unhappy due to one rogue psyker, who can be written into the records as a Mutant Xeno-Loving Heretic.

 

*Making sacrifices to the Ruinous Powers is kind of a little bit Heretical. The Inquisition might be interested.



#10 Kasatka

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 03:13 AM

 First and foremost - it sounds like you are being duped into being the butt of the campaigns jokes and errors, which is never something a player should stand for.

Secondly - a roleplay game is about being able to play the character of someone completely different from who you are. This means there are 2 golden rules for how to roleplay:

1. A character should never be able to act upon player knowledge, nor should a player be able to act without character knowledge. What this means is that your character should never be allowed to act upon knowledge that the character hasn't learnt in game. For example if another player mentions they want to stab your character in his sleep, suddenly taking a combat shotgun to bed with you and sleeping with the light on is COMPLETELY out of character and shouldn't be allowed. On the other hand, if you as a player don't understand how something works in game and the GM lets you make decisions and take actions without explaining what your character would know, then it is a massive error of judgement on his part. For example if your character is trying to activate a computer console and you as a player don't know the names of the of the buttons and commands to enter, but you do have Common Lore (Tech) and Tech-use, then the GM should be telling you that your character would know what to do and let you roll for it rather than making you act out stupid actions.

2. No single player should be picked upon or set-up by another player without mutual consent from both players (they agree to having a rivalry) or without prior warning from the GM ('my game will include player versus player combat and character-death'). Anything else just rewards those who refuse to work well in a group by letting them backstab and slay their way to leadership and victory.

I would be more than a little irate in your shoes as not only should the command staff of a Rogue Trader ship (ie the player characters) get along, they should also all be working with a primary interest in bettering the name and coffers of the dynasty. Sure, individuals may have side-plots where they want to attain something personal but if you are part of a group (especially the rogue trader!) where each person is just being a **** to each other then you have to question how in the name of the Emperor did that situation ever arise in the first place? No Rogue Trader would surround himself with backstabbing bastards, especially one who owns his own ship and has any sort of profit factor.


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper.

Only those that prosper may truly judge what is sane.


#11 lurkeroutthere

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:14 AM

I'm going to chime in on an issue that hasn't really been touched yet.

As a Rogue Trader your orders sounded entirely reasonable, I am not sure where the other player/GM was getting this bit about astropaths and especially navigators being unable to leave the ship. Yes there are some members of astropathic choirs who don't come out of the soul binding experience all that well, and you don't want to loose them on an imperial world, but both your characters and the astopaths themselves will know not to let them venture far. In short when they are entrusted to you by the Astra ars telepathica you'll presumably have a basic understanding of whether they are people or charges. Even the common menials int he crew get shore leave or they get really cranky, I wouldn't want to try and imprision my astropaths.

 

On the other end of the spectrum you have Navigators who are essentially laws unto themselves serving the imperium and your dynasty only by oaths of friendship and mutual respect. Chaining the navigators to the ship would be an extremely bad move as they would then refuse to navigate for you and without that your stuck. Try and force them to navigate for you and it might work for a little bit, before the navigator houses bring their political and military might against your house to secure the release of their kinsman and you'd be largely bereft of your ability to function as a RT dynasty without their assistance.

 

So with all that in mind it sounds like your astropath character is majorly overstepping his bounds of both authority and how things would actually go on in the game setting. It would be like in midevil fantasy setting where your party showed up at an inn and he offered to get you a drink from the inn. And then he came back witht he town guards and a "Haha, prohibitiion is in full affect in this universe." Not only is there a reasonable expectation of your characters knowledge there is a reasonable understanding of your characters role. Now by common consent of a reolplaying game most people understand that even though the RT is the captain of his ship in practice he cannot run rougshod over the other players, likewise they shouldn't be using childish schemes to supplant and undermine the Rogue Trader.

 

This is just my take based on my reading, at this point I think it is necissary to have a candid out of character dicussion with the group and the GM and ask where the game is going. If you are uncommfortable in your position with the astropaths scheming you aught to speak up as no one should be forced to not enjoy their leisure time activity.



#12 Sister Callidia

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 08:46 AM

The biggest problem to me seems that the player of the Astropath is a bad player. Player infighting always ends up bad unless the players are good friends and they decided together that they want it to go this way. Your GM should have intervened. In your situation i would talk to the GM and make sure this never ever happens again. If not, walk away from the game. The GM is terrible.

But in the off chance that you like infighting. Kill him. Basically you are GOD aboard your starship. If you say off with his head he is gone. Your word is the word of the Emperor, you are the final absolute judge, there is no appeal to be had. Of course, people might object, but you own a starship that is capable of destroying worlds and quite a few nasty enforcers who will do what you want. Remember, there are 20000 people aboard YOUR ship and 99,99% of them despises Psykers.

Furthermore, if he is the head Astropath then he is responsible for the obedience and wellbeing of his underlings. He has failed his duty, terribly. Punish him.

You do not need him, basically he plays ET phone home. Usefull but you can live without, what you cannot live without is a person doing communications who you cannot rtely on. Kill him,

He clearly tries to besmearch not just your honor but that of your Dynasty. Ever heard of Vendetta? People have died for much much less. Kill him.

Navigators are what you need to travel through the warp. Their loss is regrettable. Make sure that next time, they will have a big escort of say 100 armed retainers when they leave your ship.

Protecting your vessel from the warp it travels through is a matter for the Gellar Field, this is a technological device. Nothing to do with your Psyker enemy. Now your explorator, he is the one in control over anything mechanical. He could sabotage you. The astropath cannot. Plus, when the Gellar field collapses, Deamons love one thing more then killing humans, that is killing Psykers. Psykers are Ice Cream, while a human is Brussels sprout.

So, either talk to him and the GM and make sure nothing ever happened and this shameful infighting is never ever repeated, walk out or Kill him.

 

 

 

 

 

 



#13 crisaron

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 10:26 AM

Dude, you are the RT?

 

Kill him. It's your ship not is, you own is ass.



#14 crisaron

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 10:27 AM

Citizen Philip said:

 

The astropath player needs a slap in the mouth for being such an idiot.  After INTENTIONALLY sabotaging the ship, resulting in the death of vital and important crew, I would have killed him, flat out.  After this he attempts to blackmail you?!  Kill him.  And then he threatens your crew, your ship and the fate of your dynasty by sabotaging the ship while in the warp?!  Kill him, again.

The Astropath should be dead, he has crippled your ship already, and threatened blackmail and sabotage.  The only thing he hasn't done is try to kill you directly.  This behaviour is way, way out of line for any character who is suppose to be serving a Rogue Trader dynasty.

Your GM is allowing all of this to happen.

 also, the Navigator should not in anyway have answered to the astropath, two very distinc organisation, shoudl the Head navigator be aware that an astropath toyed with is  lesser navigators (each ship as a few psyker and navigator usually), the navigator would make a point to look him in the eye, with is 3rd eye.

 that player is an arss. Vent is section of the ship. remove is access card, declare him enemy too your dynasti. make public is claim of summoning deamons, contact is Astrppathica house and tell them is behavior and how if you are not reimbursed or resupplied with a better one you will denounce them as a school of chaos heretics purposed on creating rogue psykers.

Get is teacher involved, contact the inquisition, make the DM's life a hell too. IMO the DM is enjoying this mascarade, show them you don't care.  Whe the psyker is in a shulttle open fire on it. if DM says you can't because of port autority, tell him he should have had the port autority tell you not to unload psykers.

 Get a NULL and look at your psyker player crying in vain as is powers are cancelled out.



#15 BlackSpike

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:26 AM

Much as we've all had fun with "How to deal with a Stupid Astropath", I think the best option is to talk to the GM.

He knew you were a novice, and still recommended that you played the Rogue Trader, the most senior rank on the ship. I would have thought he would have given you some leeway and advice, gently nudging you towards more "setting-appropriate" decisions.

The same goes for the player of the Psyker. It sounds like he wanted to set you up for a fall.



#16 ReaperRob

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 03:42 PM

 Just thought of a great way to deal with the astropath.

 

Have a huge show trial and convict the Astropath on dereliction of duty.  Execute him and use his skull for a new janitorial servo-skull.  Place said skull ahead of that player's new character int he chain of command until he redeems himself.



#17 professor_kylan

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 04:22 PM

Here's what I'd do, because it sounds like the player is the ass here, not the character specifically. You kill the character, this guys sounds like the sort of player who'd just bring in a new character that was just as much a piece of distended rectum and who also wanted revenge. Bad place to be.

I'd have the Rogue Trader spend his next aquisition on penance. Psykers got loose, bad thing for everyone involved. The RT makes a large donation to the nearby Ecclesiarchy to ensure that everyone knows the purity of the locals is his highest priority (publically, that is :P). After that is done, contact the inquisition. Inform them that as part of your RT duties, you often find it necersary to travel to the outer reaches of the light of the imperium and, as a result, you need a large coterie of psykers, navigators, astropaths and the like. Inform them that your current head psyker is skilled but poor at managing his people and request politely an interregator or junior inquisitor who is skilled at handling psykers to come with you as an aide, a font of inquisitorial wisdom and a way to ensure that no unpleasantness happens again.

 

 Watch the jerk players face when he realises that his role on the ship has now been filled by a witch hunter who would be more than happy to shove a silver stake through his heart before ever letting him pull that sort of prank again.



#18 Fgdsfg

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 07:33 PM

I have just read the OP, but a single idea popped into my head.

Shoot him.

Shoot him now.

Threatening to make or allow the gellar fields to fail is tantamount to treason and heresy of the highest degree, and while you may suffer some political flak for your decision, you are ultimately the sole arbitrator of law and justice on board what is, as the Rogue Trader, your ship.

The entire situation is stupid to begin with. Not only is he the head psyker on board, which means that ultimately he is responsible for how he carries out his duties, but why would the psykers even choose to go willy-nilly 'cross town just because the Rogue Trader allows it? Even in-character, your offhand comment that they can do as they wish is entirely appropriate, since the standard Rogue Trader is likely to administrate the psykers only on the most general level - unless he's a psyker himself, which is not the norm. That's what officers are for.

Shoot. Him.

Take your pick from Sedition Against the Imperium, Sedition Against a Peer of the Imperium, Undermining a Superior Officer, Heresy, Conspiracy to Commit Treason, Mutiny, Failure to Carry Out the Duties of an Officer or simply Dereliction of Duty; any and all of which are valid reasons for summary execution and capital punishment in the WH40k universe.

What about a trial?  Don't make me laugh.

If he was a Navigator, there could be problems with the Navis Nobilite. But he's not.
He's an Astropath. He's the underbelly of the psyker society. A glorified telefax.

It is time you reminded him of that and his duties to his ship. If it even got out that he made such threats, people would start jumping ship at the nearest port.


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These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#19 Zakalwe

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:49 PM

Okay, you don't know that much about Rogue Traders.  An RT is the frakking MASTER AND COMMANDER.  KILL HIM. KILL HIM NOW. Having threatened the ship like that the entire frakkin crew would be lining up to take the first shot!  Failing that, your character has way more political clout than his, soooooooo much easier for you to ruin HIS career than he yours.

And he forgets, Astropaths are usually bonded or on contract, and the Head of the Chior is just the head.  The whole chior including him are there to serve your every whim.  His ass is yours.

He threatened the SHIP, KILL HIM, or better yet, get the Chief Enginseer to Arco-Flagellate him or turn him into your private servitor who's existence is one of servitude and cosumed by PAIN.

And BAD GM.  What a ... for doing that to your crew.  They would most certainly know how to look after themselves.  Those that don't would probably decline to go ashore.



#20 Zakalwe

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:02 PM

professor_kylan said:

Here's what I'd do, because it sounds like the player is the ass here, not the character specifically. You kill the character, this guys sounds like the sort of player who'd just bring in a new character that was just as much a piece of distended rectum and who also wanted revenge. Bad place to be.

I'd have the Rogue Trader spend his next aquisition on penance. Psykers got loose, bad thing for everyone involved. The RT makes a large donation to the nearby Ecclesiarchy to ensure that everyone knows the purity of the locals is his highest priority (publically, that is :P). After that is done, contact the inquisition. Inform them that as part of your RT duties, you often find it necersary to travel to the outer reaches of the light of the imperium and, as a result, you need a large coterie of psykers, navigators, astropaths and the like. Inform them that your current head psyker is skilled but poor at managing his people and request politely an interregator or junior inquisitor who is skilled at handling psykers to come with you as an aide, a font of inquisitorial wisdom and a way to ensure that no unpleasantness happens again.

 

 Watch the jerk players face when he realises that his role on the ship has now been filled by a witch hunter who would be more than happy to shove a silver stake through his heart before ever letting him pull that sort of prank again.

Oh that is totally bad ass Professor.  I wish I thought of that.  The RT may not necessarily want the BIG =I= on board though.






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