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#1 SexyMike44

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 06:00 AM

ok this game up in my last game.  Sardek Norr had a flagship and war suns, said he automatically hits with his warsuns. 

Is there such as a thing as "auto-hit" in TI?

In every other game I have ever played you still need to roll the die and not get the worst result.  In this example a 1 would still fail, but 2-0 would succeed.

I'm curious what the answer is and how people feel about it.

Thanks.



#2 jboweruk

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 11:38 AM

Personally I think this needs an FAQ, since Sardakk Norr get +1 anywy, then their Flagship gets another +1 for that system it would appear the rules agree with this, but I don't personally think that's fair, to my mind a 1 should always miss no matter what. On the upside it's not his whole fleet, just the warsuns that need a 1 to hit, on the downside its his warsuns that need +1 to hit.

 

Fantasy Flight? Correct me but shouldn't a 1 be a miss regardless?



#3 Magesmiley

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 05:37 AM

There isn't a rule against automatic hits in TI that I'm aware of. I'd say yes, he does automatically hit.

Give the guy a break, he's playing the Sardakk Norr after all.
 

 



#4 SexyMike44

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 06:58 AM

The question is "should a 1 always miss?"

Most games the answer is yes.  FFG has a tendency to have loopholes in rules that later need to be clarified/errata.

So i'm curious if FFG has an answer to this, or how does the TI community handle this?

 



#5 Relampagos

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:58 AM

This sounds more like a personal/ethical dilemma than a rules question. You seem to hold some kind of gaming belief that “a 1 should always miss.” And there aren’t any loop holes on this topic either. (if you want to follow the rules. Lol)

 

Warsuns hit on 3’s or higher.

Racial bonus +1 = Warsuns hit on 2’s or higher.

Flagship bonus +1 = Warsuns hit on 1’s or higher.

Warfare II token +1 = Warsuns hit on -1 or higher.

I guess if you don’t like the “automatic” hits, then you can make him role the dice to see if he hits with a 1-10, but I’m gonna go ahead and say it’s a rather high probability.

Ps- I’m sorry you got your butt handed to you. It happens to all of us, just try not to flank the rules when it does. 
 



#6 SexyMike44

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 09:00 AM

I don't know why you are attacking me here.

I had a rules question.  And since the rules book did not have an answer for me, I was curious if other TI players had answer (and tbh the lack of responses is a bit disturbing, but maybe everyone is out playing Eclipse...=p).

this is what the forums are for, someone is curious how rules play out so they ask other people.

 

P.S. I didn't get my "butt handed to me" btw.  The Sardek Norr player actually never attacked anyone (and ended up finishing in last place).  But when he mentioned that his warsuns "auto-hit" i was curious if that was legal.  But thanks for being a jerk in your response though.



#7 bnorton916

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 12:46 AM

It is not a rules question. The rules are pretty clear.  It is an automatic hit. Just like the Jolnar can automatically miss, when fighting the Xxcha.

To say that a 1 is always a miss and 10 is always a hit weakens the Xxcha, Norr and strengthens the Jolnar and the rules never address

this. 

It doesn't needed to be faq'd no more than saying I rolled 2 10s so that means I get an extra hit.

Bill

 



#8 Relampagos

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 02:01 AM

 

Whoa whoa whoa Mike. Sorry man, just a little sarcastic jab. My bad. Apologies.

1. I thought that was a battle you were in, in which case I assumed you would have lost. My bad.
2. I was pointing out that the rules are very clear on what numbers hit, and you don’t seem to agree with the rules.
3. I know what you mean about responses… I’ve posted things and have gotten no more than 1 response sometimes. I think the topic has to really interest people. Also, your question was pretty much an easy answer, which has been given. (and it’s clear in the rules) If you want a discussion on your idea… then I suggest a new post with the title “Should 1’s always be a miss in battle”? You might actually get discussion out of it.
4. Also, I appreciate that even though you felt I was being a jerk, you refrained from attacking me back. Some people on these sites get ridiculous if they feel insulted. Sincere appreciation.
5. And finally, in my games when there is a rule that is 99% clear and simple, and someone is getting a beat down, all of a sudden the rule is so “confusing and how could anyone understand what it means?” So, I was just rolling with my experiences.

Anywhoo, best of luck to you in your future rules questions and forum usage.
 



#9 SexyMike44

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:06 AM

thank you for apologizing.

Back to the topic.  The rules are not clear to me.  There is just no mention that 1s always fail.  so you have to ask yourself/others is that intentionally not in the rules or an accidential ommision? 

Now as for the answer (imo), there are some decent arguements for why you can "auto-hit".  Looking at the expansions, and warfare card, it looks like all races in certain situations can hit on 1s, and some even go lower.  So for me, if the developers did not mean for it to be possible to hit on a 1, then by the second expansion they should have put in an errata or faq on it (although an faq saying it is legal might be nice...=p).  So my conclusion is that it is intentionally not in the rules and thus legal.

 

P.S. just because something isn't in the rules, doesn't mean it isn't suppose to be.  Just look at the errata that came out for Elder Signs, lol or any other FFG game...=p.  so that is why I asked.  Thank you to those who put in positive input. 



#10 bnorton916

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:36 AM

SexyMike44 said:

Back to the topic.  The rules are not clear to me.  There is just no mention that 1s always fail.  so you have to ask yourself/others is that intentionally not in the rules or an accidential ommision?

Why would they mention that ones always fail, 10's always hit? Because some other games in the past have done this?

This would mean that  every dice rolling combat game is ambiguous, if they don't explicit mention this rule?

I can think of plenty of examples that don't mention this rule because ...... they don't use it.

Bill

 

 



#11 SexyMike44

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 03:42 AM

I've got my answer and have moved on.



#12 jboweruk

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:30 PM

I know this is dealt with but looking at it from a fluff perspective that is one hell of a targeting system.



#13 SexyMike44

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:40 AM

Oh yea, I think the system is flawed.  IMO if your combat system is determined by randomness you shouldn't be able to completely remove randomness from the equation, only limit it.

But my question was a rules question, and after hearing the arguements I do think the developers meant to allow for 1s to hit. 



#14 jboweruk

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:24 AM

Even real warfare is full of randomness, that's why we simulate it with dice, even a real Radar Guided weapons system isn't perfect, it can be jammed, go wrong, or just plain get out-turned. That's what I meant with that comment, if this were a book or film they (Sardakk Nor) would be in possession of one mutha of a targeting system. :)



#15 Steve-O

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:32 PM

jboweruk said:

I know this is dealt with but looking at it from a fluff perspective that is one hell of a targeting system.

Nah, the guns just fire laser beams so big they cover half the star system.  Targeting has little to do with it ;P



#16 jboweruk

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 05:04 AM

Steve-O said:

jboweruk said:

 

I know this is dealt with but looking at it from a fluff perspective that is one hell of a targeting system.

 

 

Nah, the guns just fire laser beams so big they cover half the star system.  Targeting has little to do with it ;P

 

LOL, didn't think of that, of course they're Death Star by any other name.



#17 Habba

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 11:23 PM

 bnorton916 said:


It is not a rules question. The rules are pretty clear.

It is a rules question. He feels uncertain on the rules, and is asking about it. Hence, a rules question. However, like you said, the rules are actually pretty clear. Technically, that is. The auto-hit is not contradicted anywhere in the rules, so technically there's no ambiguity about it.

But there is a meta-game level ambiguity here. Most players of TI have played other strategy games as well, and quite a few of them always include a chance for success and fail ("1" and "0") . Therefore it is a very valid question to ask if TI also has auto-hit or auto-fail. This is because of the flavor of the game. (Space) battles are emergent and highly chaotic, meaning the outcome is never certain. Even the death star was blown to bits (twice) by punch of lousy rebels. So the flavor (space battle) would indicate that there is auto-hit and auto-fail. To many people having auto-hits is as obvious as fighters needing a carrier.

bnorton916 said:


It doesn't needed to be faq'd no more than saying I rolled 2 10s so that means I get an extra hit.

Relampagos said:


This sounds more like a personal/ethical dilemma than a rules question. You seem to hold some kind of gaming belief that “a 1 should always miss.” And there aren’t any loop holes on this topic either. (if you want to follow the rules. Lol)


We played our first match yesterday evening, and this was a question two of our players (out of 4) came up with individually. All the players agreed that auto-hit and auto-fail would make sense, but we were surprised to find no mention of either in the rules book or errata. As a game developer I can assure you that the rules should try to follow player's intuitions as much as possible.

Sorry for digging up such an old post, but I felt that this matter needed to be pointed out.






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