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ARBOREC SPECIAL ABILITY - ONCE AND FOR ALL


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#1 alexg22

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 04:10 AM

According to the TI3 rule book, page 22, production capacity is the maximum number of units a player may produce at a given Space Dock.

2 GFs take up 2 slots in the production capacity even if they are bought at the cost of 1 resource.

For example: a Space Dock on a planet with a resource of 4 has a production capacity of 6 [planet 4 + Space Dock 2]; therefore, a maximum of 6 units, no matter the cost, can be produced at that Space Dock (i.e. 6 Ground Forces at the cost of 3 resources).

Using the logic above, how does the question below make any sense at all? What does production capacity have to do with the cost? Up until now, I thought the two were completely independant from each other.

Q. Can 2 Arborec Ground Forces produce 2 Ground Forces for the cost of 1, thereby pooling their production capacity?

A. No, their production capacity may not be pooled.

Based on the answer and on the definition of "Production Capacity" in the TI3 main rule book, the Ground Forces' production capacity is not cumulative. That is to say, 10 Ground Forces only have a production capacity of 1 (NOT 10).

Please clarify once and for all, explaining clearly the distinction between production capacity and resource cost with regard to Arborec Ground Forces.

Thank you.

 

 

 

 



#2 Kerrin

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 05:10 AM

alexg22 said:

Q. Can 2 Arborec Ground Forces produce 2 Ground Forces for the cost of 1, thereby pooling their production capacity?

A. No, their production capacity may not be pooled.

Based on the answer and on the definition of "Production Capacity" in the TI3 main rule book, the Ground Forces' production capacity is not cumulative. That is to say, 10 Ground Forces only have a production capacity of 1 (NOT 10).

Thank you.

While I don't have the Shards of the Throne expansion yet, I'm going to take a shot at interpreting the above question and answer.

What the answer might be hinting at is that the produciton capacity of each Arborec Ground Force is 1. If so, then each Arborec Ground Force can produce 1 Arborec Ground Force for a cost of 1 resource. Therefore, 10 Arborec Ground Force units could produce 10 more Aborec Ground Force units for a cost of 10 resources.

I could very well be incorrect, and I'm sure the more experienced Twilight Imperium players can clarify the issue.



#3 alexg22

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 08:23 AM

Yes. But the FAQ said explicitly that the production capacity of the Arborec Ground Forces MAY NOT be pooled (i.e. not cumulative).

Maybe the problem lies in the question itself.

Maybe this is what should be written:

Q. Can 3 Arborec Ground Forces produce 3 units, thereby pooling their production capacity?

A. No, their production capacity may not be pooled.

If the answer was specific to ground forces, the answer would specify it. However, the answer is generic. The production capacity of the Arborec Ground Forces may not be pooled, period. By saying that 3 Arborec Ground Forces on planet A can produce 3 Ground Forces on planet A, you are pooling their production capacity for a total of 3 on planet A.

Please confirm or correct me if I'm wrong.



#4 Kerrin

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 10:03 AM

Taking the answer at face value, then that'd mean the production capacity is 1 regardless of the number of GFs present, as you've stated. I can certainly see that as reasonable if that's FFG's intent.

I figured you had that angle covered well in your original post. So in my previous reply I was looking to see if there was some other angle FFG was coming at it from and thought of the cost-splitting angle so wrote that up as another possibility.

Hopefully, FFG will provide clarity to your question!



#5 Steve-O

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 12:50 PM

alexg22 said:

Please confirm or correct me if I'm wrong.

The question being posed in the FAQ is "can I combine all my Arborec GFs and treat them like a single source for producing units?"

Meaning: "if I have 10 GF on a planet, can I produce 10 more GF for only 5 resources?" (Since GFs normally cost 1 resource for 2 plastic.)

The answer is "No, you may not pool your production capacity.  Therefore it would cost you 10 resources to produce 10 more GFs."

 

In other words, Kerrin's original response is correct.

You may, of course, use the production ability of each GF on the planet, just as you would use the production ability of each SD in a system that has more than one.  However, just as you cannot "combine" the production capacities of two SDs, you also may not combine the production capacities of two Arborec GFs.  Each must build separately, for separate cost, and will only produce 1 plastic because that is its limit.



#6 alexg22

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 01:20 AM

Thank you,

I understand now. It makes sense.



#7 alexg22

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 01:23 AM

Kerrin said:

Taking the answer at face value, then that'd mean the production capacity is 1 regardless of the number of GFs present, as you've stated. I can certainly see that as reasonable if that's FFG's intent.

I figured you had that angle covered well in your original post. So in my previous reply I was looking to see if there was some other angle FFG was coming at it from and thought of the cost-splitting angle so wrote that up as another possibility.

Hopefully, FFG will provide clarity to your question!

Thank you, Kerrin, for your insight.

I hope this exchange will help a great number of other players understand this rule.

 



#8 The Archon

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 03:19 AM

Steve-O's explanation is correct; the rules basis for this FAQ ruling is on page 26 of the Base Rulebook (under Spacedocks).  I tried pasting it in here but my computer is being difficult.  The gist is that if, due to production capacity limit of a Spacedock, you only have 1 production capacity left for the Spacedock then you can buy a Fighter or Ground Force, but it will cost you 1.  By that rule, if you have two Spacedocks in a system, and if you build such that each of them have 1 production capacity left, building a Fighter or GF in each of them would cost a total of 2.  So I think the intent for Arborec GFs is to treat each of them like they are a Spacedock with a capacity of 1. 



#9 Natfka

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 05:42 AM

You have to be careful not to call them spacedocks. That brings in other rules.

 

Each gf has a capacity of 1 in this case. So 10 gf's can produce 10 units. What really is effected by this is fighters and other ground forces. You can only produce them at a 1gf created for a gf already there, a 1 to 1 ratio.  Thus if you have 10 ground forces you can create 10 ground forces for a cost of 10 production. Its a production penalty, but is flexible to produce units where ever you need them.. You could also create 10 destroyers assuming you have the fleet capacity.



#10 jboweruk

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 11:47 AM

In fairness I do think this balances them out somewhat, otherwise being able to knock up another 10 GF's on a planet anywhere you have GF's would be a little unbalanced imho. It would be unviable to attack the Arborec as they would swamp every planet with Ground troops, making it unassailable.



#11 Wheatkings

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 06:37 AM

jboweruk said:

In fairness I do think this balances them out somewhat, otherwise being able to knock up another 10 GF's on a planet anywhere you have GF's would be a little unbalanced imho. It would be unviable to attack the Arborec as they would swamp every planet with Ground troops, making it unassailable.

Well remember the type of race they are... they are an agressive plant species.  Don't think so much as producing as building or training, they expell spores and their troops are grown.  They are meant to be able to "swarm", think of them like the weeds in your lawn and you'll understand it easier.



#12 Phoenixx

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:18 PM

the Arborec are worse than the Yssaril… my favorite to play and yet the race I hope i never see as my neighbor…


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#13 freakgib

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:26 AM

i have a question also can the Arborec build units if there are enemy space ships in the system

normaly with a Space Station it would be blocked but the Arborec use GF for building  or are they then only able to produce Ground forces?

 

also for the above story's the Arborec have the Recial ability

Spore acceleration  Increase the build capacity of your ground force by 1

so if u have that tech u can build 2 GF for the cost of 1 or 2 fighters for the price of 1

make them even more scary

the best thing to do against them is  put them in quarataine :)



#14 Steve-O

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 06:44 AM

i have a question also can the Arborec build units if there are enemy space ships in the system

normaly with a Space Station it would be blocked but the Arborec use GF for building  or are they then only able to produce Ground forces?

 

If I recall correctly (and it has been a while), Space Docks are still allowed to produce GFs and PDSes on the planet they're attached to while being blockaded in space.  They cannot build ships, though.  Barring any official contradiction from FFG, I would be inclined to say that Arborec GFs may do the same.  That is, they can build other GFs while the planet they are on is blockaded, but they can't build ship units.



#15 Fnoffen

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:42 PM

They would also be allowed to build PDSs and/or Mechanized I believe.

(Sorry about being Captain Obvious, just wanted to make my 500th post before going to bed...)

Edited by Fnoffen, 14 August 2013 - 02:45 PM.

Pax Magnifica Bellum Gloriosum


#16 Aeonim

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:38 PM

Kerrin asked for FFG's intent, and I assume it is the following with the Arborec:

 

EXPONENTIAL GROWTH

 

What does this mean?

 

.  <-- This GF here dropped onto a planet. It's all dusty and tired from the long trip.

.  <-- Second round, it may build something. Simple mitosis. It multiplies and produces a 2nd GF.

:  <-- Third round, both are happy little GFs with production capacity 1 and will lead us to the following:

:: <-- Fourth round, 4 GFs, each with a prod. cap of 1. Each counts as a single production facility and has to be funded/fed individually. Thus they can dropp you 4 more GFs for the following round.

:::: <-- Fifth round on this planet. Now there're 8 GFs, able to produce 8 units total of any type - even War Suns! (Pity you only have two). Instead... for whatever reaons... more GFs!

:::: :::: <-- Sixth round - uh oh... getting crowded there.

 

:::: ::::

:::: :::: <-- I don't think it will come to this. - Oh you can double this by researching their racial technology! 64 production cap. with 32 GFs on one planet. You can drop all your plastics instantly here!

 

The goal with the Arborec's design is "Natural Growth".

What they do is ignore the regular Production Capacity-rules of the game (Space Docks) by having countless decentralized mini-Space-Docks.

Ultimately they decide their Production-Capacity per planet, respectively per system - no matter the number and ressources on the planets there.

 

The drawback is: one unit per mini-Space-Dock (GF).

 

 

You can read their logic also like this:

 

"The cost of GFs and Fighters is '1' for Arborec. Thus they only get '1' unit of those while building them."

"The racial Technology increases the Production Capacity of your 'factories' by '1' (to '2'), and makes you produce GFs as normal player again."

 

 

If this is still too complicated, I'll try it like this:

GFs and Fighters actually cost 0.5 Ressources.

Since you can't pay that, you actually have to buy 2 at a time.

You always have to pay the minimum possible amount of 1.

 

View it as: You buy 1 GF/Fighter and get one extra for free if you have the Production Capacity for that.

 

Thus, the huge Zerg-like reproduction-bonus they can get (you have to get it rolling of course!), is balanced out by more expensive base-units.


Edited by Aeonim, 30 October 2013 - 12:50 PM.





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