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#1 Kain McDogal

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 08:09 PM

One of our players wants to take the opportunity and become the Koronus Expanse next "Boba Fett", but after looking at the new Alternate Career Rank we noticed that no Career will offer the Prerequisite Good Reputation (Underworld) he needs to ever pick the Trait Fearful Reputation.

Is this an error and the Prerequisite should be Peer(Underworld) after all this Talent is listed in the Manhunter Alternate Carrer Rank or should he get it as an Elite Advance? But if this is the case why shouldn't a GM offer the whole Package (Talent and Trait) as an Elite Advance in the first place?



#2 Errant

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 09:43 PM

The Manhunter advances contains a single entry which cannot actually be purchased under normal circumstances—this advance grants the characters the Fear 1 Trait, and requires Skills and Talents which are not available through this advance scheme. This is entirely deliberate. For a character to gain
such a terrifying reputation requires he be well-known and feared, and this is something that cannot be obtained solely through the expenditure of experience points. Even then, it should not be easily obtainable. Meeting the prerequisites for this advance should be something obtained through play, an accomplishment for the character, worked towards over time. It takes both a grand reputation and a considerable degree of personal presence to be able to make your enemies flee before you; they must know without doubt that the enemy they face is someone to be feared…and such a feat is not easily accomplished.



#3 Kain McDogal

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 10:59 PM

You are right, but I first thought this would refer to Trait itself. As it is written it seems to be the wrong way to  getting this Trait, because there may be quite a few Manhunter in the Koronus Expanse who would earn themselves a Good Reputation with the Underworld, it's part of their job, but only a handful will ever be recognized and feared to warrant the Fearful Reputation Trait.

So Good Reputation (Underworld) should be available to buy with XP from an Advance Table and the Fearful Reputation Trait should only be available as an Elite Advance like Glimpse From Beyond with an additional cost like Corruption Points due to the atrocities the PC has done to get this far. No Manhunter in "reality" (without knowing the RPG-rules) will have the goal to become the most feared man in the galaxy. They are only out for cash and a Fearful Reputation is the final consequence of their greed.



#4 Maese Mateo

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 12:09 AM

You can purchase Peer/Good Reputation (Underworld) as an Elite Advance, so I don't see any issue.



#5 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 07:00 AM

The talent isn't meant to be easily accessible, and thus it has a prerequisite which cannot be obtained through conventional means. That's deliberate and intentional.


Writing Credits for Fantasy Flight Games: Into the Storm, Edge of the Abyss, Battlefleet Koronus, Hostile Acquisitions, Black Crusade Core Rulebook, First Founding, The Jericho Reach, The Soul Reaver, Only War, The Navis Primer,Ark of Lost Souls, and Hammer of the Emperor

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#6 Gregorius21778

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 11:40 PM

Maese Mateo said:

You can purchase Peer/Good Reputation (Underworld) as an Elite Advance, so I don't see any issue.

So, since everything can be purchased as an Elite Advance, their will never be any issues no matter what.



#7 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 06:51 AM

Gregorius21778 said:

Maese Mateo said:

 

You can purchase Peer/Good Reputation (Underworld) as an Elite Advance, so I don't see any issue.

 

 

So, since everything can be purchased as an Elite Advance, their will never be any issues no matter what.

Pretty much. That is, within the boundaries of a particular GM's proclivities.


Writing Credits for Fantasy Flight Games: Into the Storm, Edge of the Abyss, Battlefleet Koronus, Hostile Acquisitions, Black Crusade Core Rulebook, First Founding, The Jericho Reach, The Soul Reaver, Only War, The Navis Primer,Ark of Lost Souls, and Hammer of the Emperor

I no longer write for, or am employed by, Fantasy Flight Games in any fashion. All of my comments are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of any employer, past, present, or future.

#8 Zakalwe

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 11:52 AM

Well at Rank 1 you can play a Rogue Trader who owns a Cruiser with enough firepower to level cities, so I can't see any problem with elite advancing this.  Up to you and your gm how it pans out in the game.



#9 Decessor

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 03:05 AM

Not every GM hands out elite advances solely on request. Several insist on in game activity to justify the character acquiring said talent. But if the character has what it takes to be an elite manhunter that shouldn't be an issue.



#10 Fgdsfg

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 04:25 AM

It very clearly states that that character advance (Fearful Reputation Trait) requires an elite advance to qualify. It is very unambigious, in my opinion. It also sells for a whooping 1500xp to buy. I think it is safe to say that although this is offered at whatever Rank the player chooses to substitute it for (as early as Rank 1, with GM approval), it is far from being intended as an early-game character advance.

Even if you were to eschew the regular prereqs. and offer it (Fearful Reputation) up as an Elite Advance (which I see no reason for doing), going by the base rules, that'd put it at an amazing 3000xp for a single advance.

As it is right now, it is clearly intended as a senior Manhunter advance; After all, Boba didn't become so Fett when he was still a little maori youngling.

Something I think is far stranger is the fact that Peer (Underworld) and Good Reputation (Underworld) is so tied to the Manhunter; After all, we are talking about someone that is just as likely to work for Law Enforcement as for a Crime Boss (entirely dependant on character). But that's somewhat beside the point. After all, it is a game mechanic, and whether you gain the +10/20 FE bonus due to fear, respect or reverence if somewhat moot.

Addedum: I started looking at all the prereqs, preparing to make an argument as to whether Fearful Reputation is even worth it, leaning strongly towards a "no". After all, let's tally the prereqs: First you need Peer (Underworld), which is 500xp, to qualify for Good Reputation (Underworld) - which has to be taken as an Elite Advance. The cost of Good Reputation (Underworld) would be a minimum of about 1000xp; possibly more, but it's hard to determine as nobody has this as a base advance. But you also need 50 Fellowship to qualify for Good Reputation (Underworld); so let's just assume you had very good rolls and took a predominantly Fellowship-boosting Origin path, for the sake of simplicity. But we're not done. You also need not just Intimidate, but Intimidate +20 to qualify for Fearful Reputation. Depending on what Career you start as, you will have to pick some or all of these as Elite Advances. The best option here would be to pick an Arch-Militant, who starts with Intimidate and could pick up Intimidate +10 and Intimidate +20 on Ranks 2 & 3 respectively, for a total of 400xp. The second-best would be to start with a Navigator, picking up Intimidate, Intimidate +10 and Intimidate +20 at Ranks 1, 2, and 3 for a total of 500xp. This would however put off taking the Manhunter Alternate Career Rank until Rank 4 at the earliest. The third-best option appears to be Void-Master, who could pick up Intimidate at Rank 2, and Intimidate +10 and Intimidate +20 at Ranks 6 & 7 respectively, for a total of 500xp.

And THEN you would be able to get the Fearful Reputation advance as a Manhunter, after investing a grand minimum of 3400xp (and the approval of 1 Elite Advance by your GM), or as much as 4000xp or more (and the approval of an amazing 4 Elite Advances by your GM). No matter how you cut this, Fearful Reputation is intended to be taken well into your character's career. No matter what, there's no realistic chance of you having it before Rank 4ish.

But like I said, I was heavily leaning towards this simply not being worth it, at least not in terms of mechanics, when I started tallying this. But then I checked what Fear 1 actually does. Needless to say, the scum of the galaxy does generally not have any stellar Willpower modifiers. Kick down the door of a bar, I can see half of them shooting themselves in sheer desperation, turning on their friends in an effort to sell them out, or climbing up the inside of a garbage chute trying to flee from you.

Fearful Reputation is a significant investment; obviously intended as such, and rightly so. I see no issues with the cost or the mechanics behind aquiring it.

Decessor said:

 

Not every GM hands out elite advances solely on request. Several insist on in game activity to justify the character acquiring said talent. But if the character has what it takes to be an elite manhunter that shouldn't be an issue.

 

 

I find that the Rogue Trader book in particular is very different to Dark Heresy in it's approach to Elite Advances. Dark Heresy appears to be very much "Elite Advances should be scarce", whereas Rogue Trader seems to sprinkle insinuations directed at the GM about giving out Elite Advances left and right all over the Rogue Trader books.

Which in my opinion is a good thing, so don't get me wrong. Elite Advances and the books encouragement to make use of the Elite Advance mechanics when appropriate is basically a carte blanche to deviate from the set rules as a GM sees fit - which he of course always can do, but a lot of GMs seem to forget this and keep to the rules.

So.. yeah. Elite Advances. They rock.
Use them liberally. Except when the players specifically ask for them.

Then they're probably up to shenanigans.


Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#11 Decessor

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 12:46 AM

Some nice work there Fgdsfg. Just to point out though, a fellowship-orientated arch-militant with the prequisites for fearful reputation would already be excellent at intimidation and obtaining information/resources from the underworld. So while that 3,400xp+ is a hefty investment, it does reap dividends even before Fearful Presence hits the table.



#12 Fgdsfg

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 04:09 AM

Decessor said:

Some nice work there Fgdsfg. Just to point out though, a fellowship-orientated arch-militant with the prequisites for fearful reputation would already be excellent at intimidation and obtaining information/resources from the underworld. So while that 3,400xp+ is a hefty investment, it does reap dividends even before Fearful Presence hits the table.

Of course; the prereqs. themselves aren't useless investments. If I were going for a Bounty Hunter character, it's more or less advances you should be going for anyway.

But I will admit that the first idea in my head when I think "Arch-Militant" isn't "Fellowship!". :D


Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#13 Errant

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 10:55 PM

 You say fellowship-based Arch-militant, I hear Batman.



#14 Fgdsfg

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 01:09 AM

Errant said:

 

 You say fellowship-based Arch-militant, I hear Batman.

 

 

So, a Nobleborn Arch-Militant masquerading as the voidship's Seneschal?

Edit:
Homeworld: Nobleborn.
Birthright: Vaunted.
Lure of the Void: Renegade (Recidivist).
Trials and Travails: High Vendetta.
Motivation: Vengeance (Hatred: Criminals).
Legacy: Of Extensive Means (A Powerful Legacy).
Career: Arch-Militant (faux Seneschal).

Pray for high FE and beeline for Manhunter. Starts with Talented (Intimidate), a Hatred for Criminals, Concealment as a Trained Basic Skill, an Enemy of the police (Arbites), and a Resistance to Interrogation.

The game hasn't even started and someone is already humming nanananananan Batman, Batman.


Real men earn their fun

Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#15 CaptainStabby

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 09:48 AM

Thats... amazing!!

Dont forget he needs to keep recruiting children from the underdecks to be his ward. Somehow they keep getting killed on away missions though...

 

 



#16 Zakalwe

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:21 PM

Fgdsfg said:

Errant said:

 

 You say fellowship-based Arch-militant, I hear Batman.

 

 

So, a Nobleborn Arch-Militant masquerading as the voidship's Seneschal?

Edit:
Homeworld: Nobleborn.
Birthright: Vaunted.
Lure of the Void: Renegade (Recidivist).
Trials and Travails: High Vendetta.
Motivation: Vengeance (Hatred: Criminals).
Legacy: Of Extensive Means (A Powerful Legacy).
Career: Arch-Militant (faux Seneschal).

Pray for high FE and beeline for Manhunter. Starts with Talented (Intimidate), a Hatred for Criminals, Concealment as a Trained Basic Skill, an Enemy of the police (Arbites), and a Resistance to Interrogation.

The game hasn't even started and someone is already humming nanananananan Batman, Batman.

Oh man that is AWESOME.  His bad ass reputation is so widespread that the dirty xeno with the 'S' on it's chest decribes him as "The scariest man alive".



#17 the 8 spider

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 02:18 AM

from france

for me don't take it; you have no reputation? good*

no one notice you? good

it means that you can approach your prey with discretion. well not every one can be clint eastwood enter a bar  and survive a wall off bullets shot by people  who are not the target  but just fear they are the target of the manhunt.

sometimes discretion is better than reputation." oh my god batman" i run  "you are under arest by lieutenant x" "**** i didn't see you comming............

manhunter or beinghunter?

and for batman i will add a mask and the spyrehunter from the book about arbites and criminal.



#18 H2SO4

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:34 AM

the 8 spider said:

for me don't take it; you have no reputation? good*

no one notice you? good

it means that you can approach your prey with discretion. well not every one can be clint eastwood enter a bar  and survive a wall off bullets shot by people  who are not the target  but just fear they are the target of the manhunt.

sometimes discretion is better than reputation." oh my god batman" i run  "you are under arest by lieutenant x" "**** i didn't see you comming............

 

Well, I would rather be feared than unknown. It's so much easier to shoot your prey in the back, when everybody is fleeing, than it is to have a shootout with a bunch of criminal scum...

 

If you need to approach your target without detection, may I suggest disguising yourself? Manhunter has Disguise skill for 300xp, Into the Storm has disguise kit for +20/+30 (best), and Hostile Acquisitions has Twitch Mask for +10 / +20 (good).

 

And for takedown / capture, go for weapons with shocking* quality. Much harder to resist or run, when you are unconscious and twitching on the ground. If you aren't the police, why act like one. Bounty hunters work for pay, rules and local laws be damned.



#19 CaptainStabby

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 08:40 AM

H2SO4 said:

 

And for takedown / capture, go for weapons with shocking* quality. Much harder to resist or run, when you are unconscious and twitching on the ground. If you aren't the police, why act like one. Bounty hunters work for pay, rules and local laws be damned.

 

This.

Also the idea of pummeling someone into submission with the equivilant of electrical boxing gloves (shock gauntlets) makes me giggle like a small child.



#20 Zakalwe

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 07:51 PM

CaptainStabby said:

H2SO4 said:

 

 

And for takedown / capture, go for weapons with shocking* quality. Much harder to resist or run, when you are unconscious and twitching on the ground. If you aren't the police, why act like one. Bounty hunters work for pay, rules and local laws be damned.

 

 

 

This.

Also the idea of pummeling someone into submission with the equivilant of electrical boxing gloves (shock gauntlets) makes me giggle like a small child.

[/

Unarmed can do the trick nicely.  One fatigue per hit plus lightning attack = most average perps down in a single round. Add Disarm, Takedown and Step Aside and you can take out tougher opponents.  Even better if you have surprise.






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