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#1 Immortus

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 04:09 AM

Is this game scattered to a degree that makes it difficult to pickup?
I have been playing warhammer quest/Hero quest for years and recently looked into finding something of the same lore. After seeing the dice mechanic of wfrp 3ed and the action cards and though this is it. awesome. 

First of all the Corebox set feels like nothing more than an expensive tease. Honestly felt like i  paid for a 5 minuet hand job. No where near enough to get finished. half the BASIC careers are missing, advanced careers are only advanced in name. Would that not be the ideal time to upgrade some stats? rather than the hideously expensive upgrades during career advancement.

The beastiery is more like a pet store unless you purches a whole box set and even then basic things are missed out. Vampires and the undead are fine with sun light these days? just as well Nagash hasn't found out yet old world would be a grave yard. Though maybe that's what's happening, we wouldn't know as were stuck in a corner of the empire. Just as well we aren't the adventuring types...

basic mechanics are poorly  explained! movement for example; using fatigue you can cross an extreme range in a turn and still make an attack? while small monsters half murder them selves doing that. Other mechanics like corruption, disease and riding are all extras?

I've barely spent a month and £60 and i already feel cheated. After working out what is needed just to get 4 characters past their first career is daunting specially when considering that is but step 1 of 5. Plus there's no content for any of the other parts of the empire let alone the darker and more exotic areas (araby, southlands, wastlands, of the dead, skaven underworld) 

Why wasn't the box set filled with All rules and careers and then subsequent box sets filled with the fluff, campaigns, local disease', cults exotic actions and reward items. 

waist of some fantastic mechanics... and now I just fill like an old man ranting & raving under the strain of his insanity cards.

 



#2 Yepesnopes

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 05:15 AM

Immortus said:

Is this game scattered to a degree that makes it difficult to pickup?
I have been playing warhammer quest/Hero quest for years and recently looked into finding something of the same lore. After seeing the dice mechanic of wfrp 3ed and the action cards and though this is it. awesome.

Warhammer Quest / Hero quests are board games. WFRP 3rd ed is a role play game, may be you are confuse about that.

Immortus said:

First of all the Corebox set feels like nothing more than an expensive tease. Honestly felt like i  paid for a 5 minuet hand job. No where near enough to get finished. half the BASIC careers are missing, advanced careers are only advanced in name. Would that not be the ideal time to upgrade some stats? rather than the hideously expensive upgrades during career advancement.

It is expensive indeed. Actually hand jobs tend to be for free, aren't they?

What do you mean by missing basic careers? From which list are missing? You can advnace stats, skills, actions, talents whatever in advanced careers, no problem there.

Immortus said:

The beastiery is more like a pet store unless you purches a whole box set and even then basic things are missed out. Vampires and the undead are fine with sun light these days? just as well Nagash hasn't found out yet old world would be a grave yard. Though maybe that's what's happening, we wouldn't know as were stuck in a corner of the empire. Just as well we aren't the adventuring types...

It is true that bestiary could be better. About undead an sun light, that is only a matter of taste. It does not need to happen in every game in the world that undead should have problems with sun light.

Immortus said:

basic mechanics are poorly  explained! movement for example; using fatigue you can cross an extreme range in a turn and still make an attack? while small monsters half murder them selves doing that. Other mechanics like corruption, disease and riding are all extras?

Agree with Movement and fatigue, there should be a maximum of how far you can move in a single turn (many GM house rule this easily by limiting the amount of momvement manoeuvres /fatigue you can suffer in one round). Corruption, diseases and others appear in the Player and Master guides. I agree that Riding should have appeared in the basic set.

Immortus said:

I've barely spent a month and £60 and i already feel cheated. After working out what is needed just to get 4 characters past their first career is daunting specially when considering that is but step 1 of 5. Plus there's no content for any of the other parts of the empire let alone the darker and more exotic areas (araby, southlands, wastlands, of the dead, skaven underworld) 

Why wasn't the box set filled with All rules and careers and then subsequent box sets filled with the fluff, campaigns, local disease', cults exotic actions and reward items.

I agree about that also, but most of the RPGs I know have suplements with extra rules, like D&D with all the warrior, wizard, cleric....manuals

Immortus said:

waist of some fantastic mechanics... and now I just fill like an old man ranting & raving under the strain of his insanity cards.

 

The game is great, very innovative. It is true that is expensive, probably if I would be now 13 and starting to role play (like I was), I could not afford for this game.


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#3 Emirikol

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 07:58 AM

The core box used is $45 us on amazon.com.  That should be like 28.50 pounds.  That, combined with the Players guide pretty much provides you with all that you really need.  The Player's guide is available via pdf as well now.

They evidently did a good job making you 'think' that you needed all those other boxed sets. Go marketing people!

Don't be in a big rush to go out and get mutation and corruption rules, permanent wounds, and extra disease cards.  It's not that special.

Play some games and then figure out what you need.

 

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#4 Daedalum

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 11:21 AM

This is one of those games that you probably need to accept on its own terms rather than what you are used to with other rpgs and how they are presented. Its components heavy which means LOADS of releases and in a manner that won't perfectly suit any one particular person (even though FFG offer various perchasing 'streams' - Core box/vaults, Core guides/Expansions ).

i agree with Emirikol, pick up the Players Guide to really open up options for your players. Though they'll need to write down their actions etc in absence of the cards from the various boxed sets. It's also has more rules clarity. Might be worth considering a PDF of the GMs guide too but not essential. Really is worth working through a bunch of games with the core and players guide before grabbing more expansions.  If you are not comfortable throwing loads of cash at an RPG, might want to take it cautiously with v3.

Give it a go with what you have and wing the rest, focus on those innovative mechanics that attract you. Take ownership of those and don't feel you need to have all the boxes, as at its heart, this game encourages the GM to make use of interpreting the dice as they see fit.

 

And no, I don't think you are wrong, its the nature of spreading out the game that also makes it hard to get buy in. If you find you like it, its worth it. If you don't it aint. :)

 

 



#5 bigity

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 04:06 PM

Emirikol said:

The core box used is $45 us on amazon.com.  That should be like 28.50 pounds.  That, combined with the Players guide pretty much provides you with all that you really need.  The Player's guide is available via pdf as well now.

They evidently did a good job making you 'think' that you needed all those other boxed sets. Go marketing people!

Don't be in a big rush to go out and get mutation and corruption rules, permanent wounds, and extra disease cards.  It's not that special.

Play some games and then figure out what you need.

 

jh

 

Used! And a game based on chits isn't one I'd risk used from most stores.



#6 Immortus

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 03:55 AM

 Thanks all for taking the time to reply

You are all right i should play through a few more games grab the Players guide and settle in for the long run I and my group really enjoy the mechanics and I guess we were just disappointed with the limited content of the box set after some had read online of other career options and rules. With hind sight having a Troll Slayer sprint across a vast distance only to trip over his beard on the first swing was nothing short of hillarious

Thanks again! I plan on being a lot more helpfull and less ranty on the forum from now on =]



#7 Daedalum

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 11:05 AM

 Trust me, when it comes to reactions to v3 you ain't anywhere near ranting. Game offers a lot of options, tools and components to manage. Discussions on these boards bares out that every group varies in what, how and when they use it all. Best way to stay sane is play-discuss/complain-tweak-play.  No shame in it. For me, the game didnt become manageable till it was pointed out on the forums that all enemies in an encounter share a single set of action cards and I swapped all the tokens behind the Gm screen for post-its & hash marks. Finding a happy medium requires quite some patience, so better to have not over-invested in expansions if at risk of losing that patience. ;)

If you do find that happy medium, I'd recomend this purchase path Core -> Players Guide -> Creature Vault -> Omens of War -> Lure of Power -> Hero's Call. That will give you the most options or, ehm, bang for your buck. Other purchases can be done as needed: components covered in Players Guide can be picked up retrospectively if players actually take on a career (from Adventurers Toolkit, Signs of Faith or Winds of Magic) and then only if transcribing from the Guide is unsatifactry. Or if the extra rules or adventures from those supplements interest the GM. Adventures: buy if you ACTUALLY intent to run, rather than for aditional components. Plenty of reviews and actual plays around. The component lists in the support section here is also useful for getting a handle on what's in various supplements.



#8 Immortus

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 04:55 AM

I'm surprised! lure of power looked the least interesting! Does it have that much to offer?

I think knowing my group a few other expansions will be required but patients wont be an issue. We've been messing with and adding to an ancient system for years! This seems to have everything we want, even if it is a little bit stretched apart and makes you scratch your head. 

What of black fire pass? I think the dwarf lovers in the group will drool a little ...



#9 Callidon

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 06:00 AM

 

Black Fire pass is good times for dwarfs.  The flavour of the new careers in it like the grudge bearer are quite awesome.  We only had one session of play using any of the components and the inventions are awesome but the extra chits are just a hassle (switch to post-its or notes on a page instead of more s---t to get scattered about when a cat jumps on the table or a toddler runs amok).  I haven't dealt with runesmithing as-yet in 3rd edition but it looked to be an okay system.

Lure of Power has a lot to offer in terms of setting propper tone and style for warhammer (ie not just hack n slash, and not everything is covered in poo....and "fat chicks need love too" ~ Quagmire).  I thought it was flat out win but I'm a bit of a fanboi of all WFRP has to offer accross three editions and I had been seriously missing the Prince of Pleasure in v3...this kid is biased.

In lieu of picking up Heroes Call on it's delivery day you can also nab the pdf of Sigmar's Heirs from 2nd edition to give you a great gazateer of the Empire and its people.  The high power stuff in that supplement will collect dust for a good while anyway, and I am leery of how much detail they can possibly fit into a 45page booklet when it is released.  Hopefully Dan, Chris and their freelancers knocked it out of the park because they've also got to add in two new races within that 45page limit as well and...sorry for the tangent.

Omens of War was a great supplement because it adds a lot of options for martial characters, severe wounds and mounted combat (which is bittersweet as it is an easy set of rules....but it's like half a page long lol).

Creature Vault is something that should have just been in the core set imo.  I am also a fan of the Creature Guide as a companion but it is rapidly getting out of date with all the foes added in later supplements.

When it comes to the other supplements you have two main paths to choose from.  The a la carte box method of Adventurer's Toolkit, Winds of Magic, Signs of Faith (with a recommendation of also getting the Player's Guide) < around $155US on Amazon>  OR Player's Guide, GM's Guide, Player's Vault, GM's Vault <around $140US on Amazon>.   If you do both things you will end up with purchasing the same cards, careers, rules, etc TWICE.  If you desire multiple copies of every ability and career from Core through Signs of Faith...I suppose you could do both.

Player's Guide - Really handy to have at least one of these babies floating around.  Depending on your group dynamic I'd foist this off onto the players to pick up.  I own the pdf of it and it's been living in my iPad for a year.


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Edge of the Empire: Talent Trees; Force Powers; Character Sheet

 


#10 Daedalum

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 10:26 AM

Immortus said:

I'm surprised! lure of power looked the least interesting! Does it have that much to offer?

I think knowing my group a few other expansions will be required but patients wont be an issue. We've been messing with and adding to an ancient system for years! This seems to have everything we want, even if it is a little bit stretched apart and makes you scratch your head. 

What of black fire pass? I think the dwarf lovers in the group will drool a little ...

My thinking is a generic purchase path that will give your players the widest range of careers and actions.  Omens expands martial actions cards and careers, Lure expands social cards and careers and Hero's Call will provide expanded race and region options. But yah, prioritise Black Fire Pass if you have keen dwarfs. :) Afteral it includes 10 careers and action cards. 



#11 Doc, the Weasel

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 12:32 PM

Daedalum said:

 

Immortus said:

 

I'm surprised! lure of power looked the least interesting! Does it have that much to offer?

I think knowing my group a few other expansions will be required but patients wont be an issue. We've been messing with and adding to an ancient system for years! This seems to have everything we want, even if it is a little bit stretched apart and makes you scratch your head. 

What of black fire pass? I think the dwarf lovers in the group will drool a little ...

 

 

My thinking is a generic purchase path that will give your players the widest range of careers and actions.  Omens expands martial actions cards and careers, Lure expands social cards and careers and Hero's Call will provide expanded race and region options. But yah, prioritise Black Fire Pass if you have keen dwarfs. :) Afteral it includes 10 careers and action cards. 

 

 

I would like to second his recommendation of Lure and Omens, favoring Lure.

Lure of Power doesn't have the bells and whistles that the other boxes have (Corruption, Disease, etc) but it has a load of action cards that everyone could use. I mean full on Gary Oldman screaming "Everyone!" Not just social actions either there are some combat cards too. If your warrior-type wants to really defend others, this is where you get those cards.


Listen to my actual play podcasts at BeggingForXP.com.

 

Take a look at my Talent Trees (Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion), YT-2400 deck plans for the Lazy Bantha, as well as my other handouts.


#12 Immortus

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 01:15 AM

The Social Action cards that Lure provides, how are they used is this during combat or socially some how?
The idea of support/defend actions sounds good specially in a group that love cloth wearing characters. 



#13 Doc, the Weasel

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 05:25 AM

Immortus said:

The Social Action cards that Lure provides, how are they used is this during combat or socially some how?
The idea of support/defend actions sounds good specially in a group that love cloth wearing characters. 

Again, some of the actions in Lure are straight up attacks with no social component. That's why I recommend it over Omens. It has variety.

The social actions are much like the ones in the core set; you can use them either straight up as one shot actions, or as part of a social conflict encounter. The main difference is that there is a lot more depth than in the core.

There is also a system for specific types of social conflict, called Duel of Wits. 


Listen to my actual play podcasts at BeggingForXP.com.

 

Take a look at my Talent Trees (Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion), YT-2400 deck plans for the Lazy Bantha, as well as my other handouts.


#14 Callidon

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 05:43 AM

Doc, the Weasel said:

Again, some of the actions in Lure are straight up attacks with no social component. That's why I recommend it over Omens. It has variety.

The social actions are much like the ones in the core set; you can use them either straight up as one shot actions, or as part of a social conflict encounter. The main difference is that there is a lot more depth than in the core.

There is also a system for specific types of social conflict, called Duel of Wits. 

+1 listen to the Dr!  He spits hot fire and doesn't afraid of anything.


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Edge of the Empire: Talent Trees; Force Powers; Character Sheet

 


#15 Immortus

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:26 AM

 Damn you all, my wallet hates you!

So i ordered Player guide, creature vault, Lure of powe, Omens of War & Back Fire Pass

Thank's a lot guys hearing from people who have and are playing has been so much more helpful than there vague descriptions or "well see" reviews =]
You should all get commission.

 






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