Jump to content



Photo

Mill and Deck Limit


  • Please log in to reply
7 replies to this topic

#1 DerBarchen

DerBarchen

    Member

  • Members
  • 237 posts

Posted 20 January 2012 - 11:49 PM

So I was playing Greyjoy Mill against Stark/Tully, I had two games and in both games I managed to mill my opponents deck Entirely by turn 6/7 but both times I lost by the thinnest margin, once on a single dominance and once on a single Distinct Mastery.
After the game I found out that my opponent was running a 70 card deck! I was Not amused, were his deck 60 card I would have milled him two or three turns earlier and probably had no problem winning!

I thought that this was just a downside to mill in casual play that Id have to get used to but then I read the tournament rules and it turns out that there is no max deck limit in tournament play either! I realise that Mill isnt really meant to eat your opponents deck (negative player experience and all that) but its still one of the stronger aspects of it and you cant ignore it, am I the only one who feels a bit screwed running a mill deck when all your opponent has to do is have an extra few cards and all of a sudden you have less of an impact on the game?



#2 KristoffStark

KristoffStark

    Member

  • Members
  • 529 posts

Posted 05 March 2012 - 10:44 AM

DerBarchen said:

So I was playing Greyjoy Mill against Stark/Tully, I had two games and in both games I managed to mill my opponents deck Entirely by turn 6/7 but both times I lost by the thinnest margin, once on a single dominance and once on a single Distinct Mastery.
After the game I found out that my opponent was running a 70 card deck! I was Not amused, were his deck 60 card I would have milled him two or three turns earlier and probably had no problem winning!

I thought that this was just a downside to mill in casual play that Id have to get used to but then I read the tournament rules and it turns out that there is no max deck limit in tournament play either! I realise that Mill isnt really meant to eat your opponents deck (negative player experience and all that) but its still one of the stronger aspects of it and you cant ignore it, am I the only one who feels a bit screwed running a mill deck when all your opponent has to do is have an extra few cards and all of a sudden you have less of an impact on the game?

First of all, the "Spoiler Space" forum is really about stuff from the books/series, rather than about gameplay, but I'll still respond to this.

You shouldn't feel "screwed."

I'm going to assume, since you used the term "mill" to refer to a discard deck, that you have a background in Magic: the Gathering, where decking out results in you losing the game.

I'm further going to assume that this is a tactic you like to use.

Maybe because of that you assumed that draining someone's deck in GoT would be an almost assured win.  I'm sorry that's not the case, but it's no you getting screwed.

There is only one way to win AGoT: collect power; it is the only win condition (now that Doomed cards are only legal in Legacy).  If your deck cannot do that, you cannot win.

What's the point of draining your opponent's deck, then?  Simply, denying them options.  If you have no deck, you're obviously not going to play any new characters, attachments, events, or location, except what you've got in your hand.  It's a tool to making your position stronger, not a weapon to win the game with.  And there's nothing wrong with that.

Why is there no max deck size?  Because it is it's own drawback.  Having a bigger deck means you are less likely to draw any particular card.  Trust me, I used to have a Stark deck that was close to 200 cards.  The only thing that made it work were all of the fetch mechanics in my plot deck.

The point is, I don't think you should feel "screwed" because a certain tactic doesn't work that way you want it to.  It's a game, it has rules, and those will likely be different from other similar games.



#3 DerBarchen

DerBarchen

    Member

  • Members
  • 237 posts

Posted 03 May 2012 - 01:28 PM

Whoa, Captain Sarcastic, all men set sail for Cape Petulance!
As I said in my other, eh identical post (embarassed face), I was actually drunk when I posted this so Im sorry, Mah Bad. I actually dont have a background in MtG, I dislike it something fierce >.> My point was that at the time there was almost not way to win through mill and decking your opponent was a much bigger deal.

Several months ago the playing field was somewhat different and the main strength of a mill deck (and no, it has nothing to do with Magic, that's how the deck archtype was introduced to me several years ago through this game) was forcing your opponent to deck themselves and having to play with what's in hand and on board. Infact I STILL think one of the greatest strengths of a raid deck is thinning your opponent's deck as fast as possible, as brutally as possible. My complaint was that at a Tourney a few cards extra on top of the deck could mean a Huge difference as far as the outcome of the game goes and I found it surprising that there was no hard limit on deck size.

All that said, inebriation aside, I didn't ask for a run down on how games work, on how the win condition of This Particular game works nor to hear thinly veiled veteran pride (I know what doomed was too, do I get to wear a special hat now or something?) I'm aware that my post wasn't the most eloquent or even on the right board but there's a difference between pointing out someone's foible and being a Thundering Goblin ****** about it. Especially if you yourself were at some point someone who played with a 200 card "deck". Seriously? I'm pretty sure there is a rule about not being allowed to play a deck that you cant physically shuffle. Id love to see how that worked, I doubt it would no matter how many Secrets of the North you're running (its an old card, you probably never heard of it)

TL;DR
I like these forums, they are full of friendly and helpful people, and even the irritating one's usually have a reason to be when worked up or agrevated. You on the other hand clearly just decided to vent on a percieved noob for no other reason than that you could. If someone makes a mistake then by all means point it out amigo but if you're going to berate someone passive-agressively just because they posted a half serious complaint, a fau pax though it may be, then maybe you should stick to creeping the forums rather than posting.



#4 Rubinon

Rubinon

    Member

  • Members
  • 124 posts

Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:17 PM

Oh boy! Sorry, but that sounds like the result of another little "inebriation" (cool word btw). Kristoff's post wasn't that bad.



#5 DerBarchen

DerBarchen

    Member

  • Members
  • 237 posts

Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:09 PM

 Haha no no I was fine last night I promise, I rarely drink, if ever these days!

That post just really bugged me for some reason, it felt really condescending and tbh (~unless youre taking to Melnick) I dont really expect that kind of **** from these forums. Especially the implication that I was in any way involved with MtG. Man, that game,I really don't like that game =P



#6 KristoffStark

KristoffStark

    Member

  • Members
  • 529 posts

Posted 04 May 2012 - 05:33 AM

DerBarchen said:

 Haha no no I was fine last night I promise, I rarely drink, if ever these days!

That post just really bugged me for some reason, it felt really condescending and tbh (~unless youre taking to Melnick) I dont really expect that kind of **** from these forums. Especially the implication that I was in any way involved with MtG. Man, that game,I really don't like that game =P

I apologize for offending you, but as much as I was condescending, I felt that your original post condescended the entire game, and that offended me.  Perhaps it wasn't right of me to react in such a knee-jerk way, but I can't change what I did.

~And, BTW, one could argue that responding to my condescension by throwing around such phrases as "Thundering Goblin ******" might wear away some moral high ground.

As for my 200 card deck, I could and did shuffle it, and I always thought Secrets of the North wasn't worth the gold.  I primarily controlled the deck through Summons and Building Orders.

"You on the other hand clearly just decided to vent on a percieved noob for no other reason than that you could. If someone makes a mistake then by all means point it out amigo but if you're going to berate someone passive-agressively just because they posted a half serious complaint, a fau pax though it may be, then maybe you should stick to creeping the forums rather than posting."

No, I did it because I felt that someone was attacking the game needlessly, and the complaint did not seem half serious.  I apologize if I misconstrued that, but it seemed very bitter and venomous when I read it.

As I said, you obviously took way more offense at my post than I indeed (as I apparently did from your original post).  For that I apologize, and hope we can just let this go.



#7 DerBarchen

DerBarchen

    Member

  • Members
  • 237 posts

Posted 05 May 2012 - 02:23 AM

KristoffStark said:

 

~And, BTW, one could argue that responding to my condescension by throwing around such phrases as "Thundering Goblin ******" might wear away some moral high ground.

 

 

Yeah, I kinda thought that as I typed it but it was just to damn tempting. Its cool, we obviously overestimated the seriousness of the other person, which is fine by me, apologies all around =)

~ If we ever run into each other on OCTGN though **** will get Real.



#8 KristoffStark

KristoffStark

    Member

  • Members
  • 529 posts

Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:58 AM

DerBarchen said:

KristoffStark said:

 

~And, BTW, one could argue that responding to my condescension by throwing around such phrases as "Thundering Goblin ******" might wear away some moral high ground.

 

 

Yeah, I kinda thought that as I typed it but it was just to damn tempting. Its cool, we obviously overestimated the seriousness of the other person, which is fine by me, apologies all around =)

~ If we ever run into each other on OCTGN though **** will get Real.

Cool, glad to hear it.

I really should look into getting on OCTGN, give me a chance to play someone other than the  other six players in town.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS