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Roles during travel: the one ring


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#1 Emirikol

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 03:21 AM

I've been adapting some things from the one ring to my WFRP3 games, namely "roles during travel."  Here's a mat for such roles:  www.voidstate.com/rpg/voidstate_one_ring_travel_mat_v1.pdf

 

I think WFRP3 could use something like this when it comes to the generic  "info-gathering"  portion of the game.  Obviously, you wouldn't need a mat to show who is the gossip, scribe-shop-librarian, cop-shop, underworld, street-gossip, notice-gatherer, etc., but it got me thinking about some of this stuff.  Planning is less necessary in the info-gathering than it is in the travel portion of the game.

Here are some other mined-ideas that I searched out:  cubicle7.clicdev.com/f/index.php



#2 Hurlanc

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 03:37 AM

 hi jay

 i was thinking about making a new card to describe travelling. (didnt you post some similar idea before ?)

on the card there should be :

- title
- all 4 roles (always the same ? should be editable for translation issues though)
- flavour text
- for each role :
         - one skill (drop-down list)
         - a difficulty value ?
         - penalty if failed ?
- list of hazards that could occur if <insert specific trigger> (1 fail = hazard   / 2fails = bigger hazard ...)

something missing ?



#3 Emirikol

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 05:25 AM

Hurlanc said:

 hi jay i was thinking about making a new card to describe travelling. (didnt you post some similar idea before ?) on the card there should be :

- title
- all 4 roles (always the same ? should be editable for translation issues though)
- flavour text
- for each role :
         - one skill (drop-down list)
         - a difficulty value ?
         - penalty if failed ?
- list of hazards that could occur if <insert specific trigger> (1 fail = hazard   / 2fails = bigger hazard ...)

something missing ?

I think you'll need to have "supplementary" roles for 5th, 6th players as well as what happens when there are only 2 or 3 players. Do a search on what Valvorik and I have discussed on this in another thread as well.

Also add a bonus area (for example, if traveling by horse, cart or a coach (with coachmen on top with blunderbusses)

Effect of chaos star maybe too.

Anyways, check with Rob (Valvorik) and see if he's got other ideas too.

 

jh

 

 



#4 valvorik

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 01:36 PM

 I have done this for trips that are to have drama and "be part of adventure" rather than just hand wave one town to next, example in the GM section Return of Krokargh thread.  I do a tailor sheet for the trip with the roles for that trip and am open to different skills being used, the point is the threat and gain each role can manage or get.

I also have used a one ring idea for major npc encounters, choosing which stat a npc most respects or relates to with the progress track of how long interaction lasts being equal to lowest stat in group.  I amusing this for Favour for Fostenklauster adventure, the Abbot respects intellect, the Prior is a sociable Fellowship man, and the Master of Hospital is a zealot it takes good Willpower to deal with.  I am allowing roleplaying of career traits each respects to extend the track.

If pcs ever went into chaos wastes then the travel in corrupt lands concept would come into play.

Our group tried one ring but I think feeling was it does not give as much choice to pcs round by round.  It is great reflection ofTolkien material and good for a high roleplaying group.  That said it does have these neat mechanical things to adapt.



#5 Gallows

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:09 PM

 I am working on some simple travel rules using the different roles and based on the one ring system. I'll make some cards and post here for feedack. What I want is something simple and quick, that adds a bit of mechanics to travel descriptions. I also want players risking complications depending on the route they pick... going through that big bad forest or following the slightly longer safe route?

 

I want the system to give players both small rewards and challenges with minimal tracking. I am thinking about risking running into a single encounter on long travels. These encounters can be combat against beastmen or a merchant with some exciting goods.

 

I want it to be a way to add some substance to travel other than pure naration.



#6 Boehm

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 01:25 AM

Gallows said:

 I am working on some simple travel rules using the different roles and based on the one ring system. I'll make some cards and post here for feedack. What I want is something simple and quick, that adds a bit of mechanics to travel descriptions. I also want players risking complications depending on the route they pick... going through that big bad forest or following the slightly longer safe route?

 

I want the system to give players both small rewards and challenges with minimal tracking. I am thinking about risking running into a single encounter on long travels. These encounters can be combat against beastmen or a merchant with some exciting goods.

 

I want it to be a way to add some substance to travel other than pure naration.

 

Why not just let the player or NPC acting as guide ... roll nature skill check - with difficulty or fortune dice depending on the safety of the route or how careful the players are being ? For things like this I think WFRPs dicepool system actually comes into its own ... 

Success/Fails = Time ...

Boons / Banes = Cost ....minor encounters

Chaos stars / sigmars comets = major encounters

 



#7 valvorik

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 02:38 AM

A basic template of success (no issues or if tracking etc. then on track), triple, boons, banes, comet, chaos star and then like One Ring, these only need to be individual for adventure and pc specific plot points, generally you can have big list o stuff and take off it.

One ring players have been creating such lists on their forum at cubicle 7.

I use an act structure for trips where a leg of journey is an act and there is no fatugue recovery for night rest as the fatigue is long term and does not come down until true layovers.



#8 Gallows

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 03:41 AM

Boehm said:

Gallows said:

 

 I am working on some simple travel rules using the different roles and based on the one ring system. I'll make some cards and post here for feedack. What I want is something simple and quick, that adds a bit of mechanics to travel descriptions. I also want players risking complications depending on the route they pick... going through that big bad forest or following the slightly longer safe route?

 

I want the system to give players both small rewards and challenges with minimal tracking. I am thinking about risking running into a single encounter on long travels. These encounters can be combat against beastmen or a merchant with some exciting goods.

 

I want it to be a way to add some substance to travel other than pure naration.

 

 

 

Why not just let the player or NPC acting as guide ... roll nature skill check - with difficulty or fortune dice depending on the safety of the route or how careful the players are being ? For things like this I think WFRPs dicepool system actually comes into its own ... 

Success/Fails = Time ...

Boons / Banes = Cost ....minor encounters

Chaos stars / sigmars comets = major encounters

 

 

Yeah something along those lines. I've been working on it a while, but can't get it right. It keeps getting too complicated because I want to factor in different areas and routes. The idea behind The One Rings travel system is nice. Adding some system mechanics to support the description of a tough and long journey.

But what you describe is similar to the TOR system. There is a saurons eye for hazzards and a gandalf something for the good encounters. It's just the balance of it. I love the dice pool system of WFRP but as a GM finding a way to balance a certain roll, in case it's something you want to use more than once can be a right pain.

But a base time, modified by the number of successes. Boons/banes then add a cost/profit and possibly minor encounters. <cs> and <sc> then adds a major encounter OR a major profit, contact, disease etc. It was something along those lines I had in mind for the cards anyway, but it's possible that it's best to just skip the cards and have that general description of the system. WIth 4 purple in the pool the chance for a major encounter is big, but it could be one encounter and then simply scale it depending on the number of comets/stars.

 

 



#9 Boehm

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 08:56 PM

Gallows said:

 

Gallows said:

Yeah something along those lines. I've been working on it a while, but can't get it right. It keeps getting too complicated because I want to factor in different areas and routes. The idea behind The One Rings travel system is nice. Adding some system mechanics to support the description of a tough and long journey.

But what you describe is similar to the TOR system. There is a saurons eye for hazzards and a gandalf something for the good encounters. It's just the balance of it. I love the dice pool system of WFRP but as a GM finding a way to balance a certain roll, in case it's something you want to use more than once can be a right pain.

But a base time, modified by the number of successes. Boons/banes then add a cost/profit and possibly minor encounters. <cs> and <sc> then adds a major encounter OR a major profit, contact, disease etc. It was something along those lines I had in mind for the cards anyway, but it's possible that it's best to just skip the cards and have that general description of the system. WIth 4 purple in the pool the chance for a major encounter is big, but it could be one encounter and then simply scale it depending on the number of comets/stars.

 

 

IMO atleast I prefer to not have too complex rules for situations like this ...me myself as a master would normally prefer to just kinda wing it along the following lines

 

1) Roll some kind of check to see if something happens (or just decide)

2) Roll some kind of die to help me determine how unusual it is (from bad weather to naked dwarf running down the road  being chased by clown-demons...)

3) Roll some kind of die to help me determine how extreme it is ... (is it bad rain or thunderstorm of the century ?)

4) ...perhaps rolling multiple checks and linking them if appropriate ... naked-dwarf-eating zombie gypsies attack players just as they are taking shelter from a really bad scary thunderstorm

5) Allow players some kind of chance to spot it coming by rolling perception or nature or ... perhaps even taking the zombie gypsies by surprise or avoiding them alltogether ?

 



#10 Gallows

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 11:16 PM

 I don't want a complex system, but I think travel is an important part of an adventure. 

What I do like however is consistency. That is also the reason for combat systems in rpgs, instead of the master just telling the players what happends. The players can expect some sort of consistency with a random element.

The reason I started thinking that I'd like a simple but consistent system for travelling is the same as the reasoning behind the rules for combat, disease etc. Combat is a big deal, disease is a big deal and travelling the dangerouns world of warhammer is also a big deal. It's not something that should feel like taking an air taxi for 200 miles.

So... I'd like a system, that is simple and can support the naration of the journey being long, tough and risky. I could just hand out fatigue and a random disease to a player, plus demand 1 gold total.But I like the players skills to factor into the outcome. If the group has a ranger with them, skilled in tracking and journeying through the world, he should be rewarded for his skills, because skills only mean something if they are used.

 

I like more skill to be useful.

Instead of every player making an endurance type check, I imagine more skills could factor in and be useful for travel. Each players should make one relevant check for the journey. A system similar to the TOR travel rules, just simplified.

Resilience, ride and stealth could all be relevant for travelling depending on the route.

Folk lore, nature lore, leadership and observation could also be important during travelling.

 

I imagine demanding four checks, so if the players don't have a certain skill they may have to hire a guide.

 

For instance a journey through rough lands could require the following checks with different difficulties:

Leadership, nature lore, resilience and stealth.

The players get this information before the journey. Perhaps no one in the group has nature lore, so the players have to find a nature guide or risk the consequences.

Each player then picks a skill he wants to roll the check for. The Master then gets the outcome in successes, boons, baned, comets and stars on each check and from that encounters or consequences may occur.

Another trip through cold mountains harrowed by blizzards could require Athletics, discipline, first aid and intuition.

 



#11 Yepesnopes

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:20 AM

Gallows said:

 I imagine demanding four checks, so if the players don't have a certain skill they may have to hire a guide.

 For instance a journey through rough lands could require the following checks with different difficulties:

Leadership, nature lore, resilience and stealth.

The players get this information before the journey. Perhaps no one in the group has nature lore, so the players have to find a nature guide or risk the consequences.

Each player then picks a skill he wants to roll the check for. The Master then gets the outcome in successes, boons, baned, comets and stars on each check and from that encounters or consequences may occur.

Another trip through cold mountains harrowed by blizzards could require Athletics, discipline, first aid and intuition.

 

I like the idea also. Making traveling around the Orld World a bit more detailed and interactive, but without the need of developing encounters everytime. In that sense I like the level of clomplexity you propose (Gallows).

But one clarification, what do you mean by "if the player does not have a certain skill"? In WFRP 3, everybody has all the skills right (appart from the advanced ones which are like 4 or 5 only)? Therefore, you don't need to have a ranger in your group. Someone with high enough Int, lets say a Wizard or a scholar, can roll for Nature Lore, cannot?


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#12 Gallows

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 01:29 AM

Yepesnopes said:

 

Gallows said:

 

 I imagine demanding four checks, so if the players don't have a certain skill they may have to hire a guide.

 For instance a journey through rough lands could require the following checks with different difficulties:

Leadership, nature lore, resilience and stealth.

The players get this information before the journey. Perhaps no one in the group has nature lore, so the players have to find a nature guide or risk the consequences.

Each player then picks a skill he wants to roll the check for. The Master then gets the outcome in successes, boons, baned, comets and stars on each check and from that encounters or consequences may occur.

Another trip through cold mountains harrowed by blizzards could require Athletics, discipline, first aid and intuition.

 

 

 

I like the idea also. Making traveling around the Orld World a bit more detailed and interactive, but without the need of developing encounters everytime. In that sense I like the level of clomplexity you propose (Gallows).

But one clarification, what do you mean by "if the player does not have a certain skill"? In WFRP 3, everybody has all the skills right (appart from the advanced ones which are like 4 or 5 only)? Therefore, you don't need to have a ranger in your group. Someone with high enough Int, lets say a Wizard or a scholar, can roll for Nature Lore, cannot?

 

 

 

You don't need to have the skill, but making a bad (or not good enough) check may have consequences. The players will be allowed a check as long as it's a basic skill of course, but sometimes even advanced skills could come into play. But the players may decide that getting a guide with a certain skill would be a great idea before taking a journey, simply to minimize the risk of the journey. It just creates some incentive for interacting with the world and I am thinking of the new rules for hirelings in lure of power. A certain route may require a particular difficult weapon skill check, and the players may decide to hire some mercenaries and for each mercenary they may add a fortune die to the check (or in case none of the characters have weapon skill, then let the mercenary captain do the check with a fortune die for each PC/NPC trained in weapon skill).

 

Just very lose rules really that can be summed up as follows:

  • A journey of considerable lenght requires four skill checks. Skills and difficulty of individual skills vary.
  • Successes relate to the time spent and general indication of the degree of success or failure, boons relate to minor positive consequences of the journey, comets are major positive consequences or a shield against negative consequences, banes are minor negative consequences, chaos stars are major negative concequences and dangerous encounters.
  • Players can select stance dice for the travels, pick one type and change as many as they can. Reckless journeys are faster and more risky, conservative journeys are slower and safer.  Exertion symbols make the journey faster but they arealso negative wildcards, that can be used as banes, chaos stars or any other effect the GM wants to give the players. Delay symbols simply delay the journey.

 

If for instance the players make the following skill checks for a dangerous journey: Weapon skill, stealth, nature lore, resilience.

 

The weapon skill succeeds with great success and a comet: The GM describes how the players faced minor encounters and dealt effectively with them on their journey. The GM rewards the players by giving each of them a bonus expertise die they can use at any time durring the adventure for a weapon skill check.

Stealth fails: The GM describes how the players move through a forest area and are ambushed by beastmen. This encounter can be played out or narated by letting each player make their favorite combat check and dealing out wounds depending on results. Lets say the GM decides to run this encounter.

Nature lore average success: The GM awards the players a combat advantage for the encounter against the beastmen. This can be an advantageous position (or using my house rules for combat advantage I'd give them some dice to use in the fight). On top of that the players stumble on some rare herbs they collect.

Resilience fails with no banes but a chaos star: The GM decides that the journey has been very rough. The players get the condition weakened, under the weather or something else to represent the hardship. The condition may last for a few days. What the players don't know is that if they don't spend at least a day resting, getting a good meals and staying warm, they will contract a disease.

 

The above are just highlights that will be weaved into the general description of the journey, and the above die rolls will set the general tone for the description.

 

Just an idea how this could be used.



#13 Ralzar

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:22 PM

After seeing the One Ring travel sheet, I attempted to make some rules for traveling based on it. As I'm running a campaign where the time pressure and traveling through the wilderness is one of the major obstacles. I attempted to condense all the rules into one sheet that can be placed on the table and be the center of attention during travel. It might seem a bit confusing at first, but the sheet is split into three parts, you just work you way down it.

Step 1: Decide what kind of terrain, weather, temperature and other benefits and hindrances will affect the journey.

Step 2 Assign roles. Everyone with a role makes a skill check with the difficulty decided on in Step 1.

Step 3: The actual Travel Check is made. The dice used are based on the results of the checks in Step 2. The result of this final check applies its affect to everyone in the party and can only be affected by party sheet abilities/Talents.

 

The third step might not be necessary, but I just disliked the idea that a character could just opt out from taking a role and then not having any consequences applied to him. It's supposed to feel like a team effort.

 



#14 Ralzar

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:28 PM

Allthough these rules might seem a bit convulted, the basic idea I'm trying to boil down is this:

The GM designates a difficulty for the journey.

The Party works together to create ONE dice pool that is used to check how the journey goes.

Any effects from the journey is applied equally to all party members.

 

I'm just trying to find a really simple way to assemble the dice pool in a way that makes everyone participate.



#15 Ralzar

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:33 AM

I've been churning travel rules over in my head, and the easiest I've come up with so far is this:

1: Calculate the average Attribute and Skill Training of the party.

2: Make one or more tests against the Difficulty of the Journey.

Apply all effects of the roll to the party.

 

Example:

Player 1 as Guide: Int 5 Folklore Trained
Player 2 as Leader: Fel 4 Leadership not trained.
Player 3 as Hunter: Int 4 Nature Lore Trained
Player 4 as Lookout: Int 3 Intuition not trained.
Player 5 as Lookout: Int 3 Intuition not trained.

Attribute: (Int5 + Fel4 + Int4 + Int3 + Int3) / 5 players = 3.8 (rounded down to 3)
Expertise: (1 Folkore Trained + 1 Nature Lore Trained) / 5 players = 0,4 (rounded down to 0)

Other Modifiers: (Well dressed +1 Fortune) + (Player 4 is Fatigued +1 Misfortune) = 1 Fortune Dice and 1 Misfortune Dice

Challange: 1 Misfortune(Cold) + 1 Challange(Forrest) +1 Challange(Deep Snow)=2 Challange Dice and 1 Misfortune Dice

Sum for check: (3 Attribute Dice and 1 Fortune Dice) vs (2 Challange Dice and 2 Misfortune Dice)

If you want to include it, calculate the average of Reckless stance spaces and offer them that many Reckless Dice to switch with the Attribute Dice. This repersents the party attempting to hurry, risking injury or other mishaps in order to move faster.

The handy thing about this system is that once you've calculated the averages, it's down to one roll per day/week where all you have to do is change the challange to represent shifts in the weather or new areas with other terrain types.



#16 Silverwave

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 03:22 AM

 Just in case someone missed it, here's my conversion of TOR travel rules : javascript:void(0);/*1331907809371*/

Now, I guess Gallows, you are not satisfied with them so it is why you want to make some of your own. Since those rules are fairly simple I guess the only thing you don't like is that it's not using as many skills as you'd like (well, they are only part of the hazards, not of the basic check which is only resilience). Also, you'd want to make 4 checks for each journey, right?



#17 Doc, the Weasel

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:15 AM

I've been looking into this myself. The problem I have run into is that it is very easy to write something that becomes an Intelligence/Nature Lore-fest. I'm looking to create some roles that can be handled by multiple skills (with different abilities) so the players can make better choices as far as who does what. 


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#18 Yepesnopes

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:54 AM

Doc, the Weasel said:

I've been looking into this myself. The problem I have run into is that it is very easy to write something that becomes an Intelligence/Nature Lore-fest. I'm looking to create some roles that can be handled by multiple skills (with different abilities) so the players can make better choices as far as who does what. 

I run into a similar problem. I had some idees but never get to the point to implement them.

Animal Handling(care) to take care of the horses (if applicable).

Observation or Intuition (orientation) may help not to get lost in case there territory is unknown or the party does not have a map

Leadership (logistics) to reduce time by optimizing the timing of the party

Folklore (geography) to find short cuts or safer paths between point A and point B

Resilience() If the party wants to travel more hours every journey -> In that case (if applicable) Ride (long distance travel) for the mounts

Stealth(wilderness, rural...) If crossing hostile terrain...

 

As I said, I failed. I am looking forward to see what you came up with.


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#19 HedgeWizard

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 08:55 AM

I like the ideas being generated here, and I'm interested in seeing the outcome, particularly for the systems that are very lightweight and flexible.

What I love about this v3 system is that it makes it easy to arbitrate the rolls and dish out consequences.  A bad scout check could result in increased party stress, PC stress, Fatigue from taking a longer way round, etc.  Did a horse die? Do they arrive wounded? Rested? Inspired?

For me, the focus isn't on the journey so much as the consequences of the journey: what state will the PCs be in when they arrive to where they are going?

Of course, having a mega encounter ready for something in the middle is always a possibility too, but for the most part for our group, it's the condition of the party when they arrive.



#20 RARodger

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 04:54 PM

As much as I like The One Ring, I'd be inclined to do something that feels more in keeping with WFRP systems. I'm not quite sure exactly how it would work but I'd make a card for different terrains like:

Foothills

Terrain, Guide

Difficutly: 1 Difficulty, 1 Misfortune

Special: Add additional Difficulty for extended trips. Add 1 Fortune if Leadership trained. Add 1 Fortune if well supplied. Add 1 Fortune if the party is mounted.  If the check fails, apply any fatigue and then encounter a wondering monster before trying again.

Nature Lore (Int)

1 Success: The character and allies arrive at their destination with 3 fatigue each

3 Success: The character and allies arrive at their destination with 1 fatigue each

1 Boon: reduce the fatigue earned by 1.

1 Comet: The party arrives early than expected (GM decides how much)

1 Bane: Each character in the party suffers 1 fatigue and 1 stress

2 Banes: The party arrives later than expected (GM decides how much)

Chaos Star: Each party member must make a 1d Resilience check or contract a Disease

Chaos Star: Wandering Monster! (Apply all fatigue and stress before starting the encounter)






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