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Barriers (Shields) vs Dodge/Block


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#1 Hamstar

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 12:44 PM

Hey everyone, It's me again, and my playgroup ran into a few more questions today

But first, I would like to thank everyone who did some research and gave extremely insightful answers to my previous questions. I learned a lot more then I assumed I would when I first asked. You guys are amazing x)

Now for all spells / abilities that give a LP barrier (Ki shields, Magic shields of most schools, and psychic barriers), when these are put up, are the casters allowed to still use their Block / Dodge to avoid attacks?

The arguement we had was that characters who "block" would have the shield absorb the attack and thus reduce the potency of the shield. The way we semi-house ruled it was that you can use your Dodge, but cannot use your Block. This was kind of a make-shift answer to keep the game continuing, but now I'm looking for an actual ruling on this.

And if characters are allowed to use their Block/Dodge with the shield up, wouldn't that make for slightly overpowered defensive skills compared to those who don't have it?
I understand how a mentalist or wizard would need one (due to their difficulty gaining defensive ability), but for those of the warlock class/ warrior mentalist, it seems kind of overpowering. Perhaps we didn't playtest it enough to get a good understanding, but that is a problem that I think might come up later.

And, when projecting a shield via magic, is there a magic projection test required? we treated this just as magic projection with a defensive inclination for now. And if it does not, can a caster use a shield with magic projection to shield an ally?

Thanks in advance,



#2 brewmaster_vitty

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 01:36 PM

don't have my book, but i can say with almost utmost certainty that the book says (somewhere or another) that when blocking with a shield that is the only chance you get. if an attack bypasses a shield then you may not block or dodge with a normal defense. i'm sure someone could give you a page number later.

 

and on the ability, you use your magic projection as if it were a defense roll, though if you have the module "magic projection as a defense" you can use your block or dodge instead of magic projection, but you still only get the one roll per attack.

 

i am almost certain this is the official ruling.



#3 Hamstar

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 03:09 PM

 Hey,

I think your misunderstanding my first question.

An example would be, assume I used a Shield of Light from the Light magic school with 300 LP. If I now get attacked by anyone, am I allowed to make a Block / Dodge roll? or does the damage just instantly get absorbed by my 300 LP barrier?

Thanks,



#4 Lia Valenth

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 03:49 PM

Hamstar said:

 

An example would be, assume I used a Shield of Light from the Light magic school with 300 LP. If I now get attacked by anyone, am I allowed to make a Block / Dodge roll? or does the damage just instantly get absorbed by my 300 LP barrier?

 

No, but I don't think you understand how Magic/Psychic Shields work. The shield does not automatically absorb the blow. The Wizard/Mentalist/etc. rolls a Projection vs the enemies attack, which works as a defense roll. If the shield blocks the attack completely the Base Damage is taken off the shield. If the Shield does not block it completely it does not damage the shield.

     In Example: If a character attacks a Wizard with an Arrow with Base Damage 60 with a Final Attack Ability of 150 and the wizard has a Royal Shield with 500LP. This example assumes the Wizard has no armor;
1) If the Wizard rolls a Final Defense Ability of 151+ (winning) the Shield takes 60 damage and the wizard takes none, and is not put on the defensive.
2) If the Wizard rolls a Final Defense Ability of 121-150 (losing by 29 or less) the shield takes 60 damage and the wizard takes none, but loses his Active Action.
3) If the Wizard rolls a Final Defense Ability of 120 or less the Shield takes no damage and the wizard takes damage depending on the difference.
     If he rolled a 111-120 he would have lost by "30 to 39" and taken 10% damage (6), the shield takes none.
     If he rolled a 121-130 he would have lost by "40 to 49" and taken 30% damage (18), the shield takes none.
     And that continues according to The Combat Table, page 81

This is explained on page 92 under Magic or Psychic Shields.
 

I HOUSERULED that a Shield that blocks damage so you take less than 100% takes the Base Damage you did not take. In the examples above if the wizard blocks with a 112 and takes 6 the shield takes 54, if the wizard rolled a 124 and takes 18 the shield takes 42.

Using a Magic/Psychic Shield to cover others is explained on page 93 under Covering Others.



#5 Hamstar

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 05:55 PM

 Ah, I dont know how i completely missed that.

Yeah, that entire section must have gotten accidentally skipped.

Ty



#6 F3nr1s

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 11:58 AM

With Ki-Shield it is somehow different:You use your Block or Dodge-skill instead of some projection-skill (because the Ki-part have no projection-skill).

Anime Core Book, English, Page 104, Energy Shield.

 

So long,



#7 Kalis

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 01:49 AM

Lia Valenth said:

2) If the Wizard rolls a Final Defense Ability of 121-150 (losing by 29 or less) the shield takes 60 damage and the wizard takes none, but loses his Active Action.

Are you sure this is not a houserule as well, cause nothing in the book suggests this?



#8 Lia Valenth

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 04:04 AM

Losing by 29 or less scores a 0% damage on the combat table. Therefore the shield has blocked the attack, and according to page 92 therefore takes the Base Damage of the attack. Further because the defender "lost" he is put on the defensive, and loses his action, if he has not gone yet. I think that is what the rules say, assuming 0 to 2 armor anyway.



#9 ElricOfMelnibone

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 05:51 AM

 I don't agree. Losing by any value means the shield DIDN'T block the attack. The shield managed to deflect it enough for the natural body of the user to "absorb" the impact or retarded it enough for the user to get to a safe distance, but it didn't actually block it, so the supernatural shield suffers no damage. Actually, if you've already acted in the same turn or if you're not performing any active action, this kind of result is (quite oddly) the best you can ask for, when defending with a Supernatural Shield. Of course it's not so if you still have to attack, since then you would lose the right to act, which is much more bothersome than having the shield suffer some damage.

Of course, that's just MY interpretation of the rules. As we all know Anima doesn't have a really perfect wording and there are more than a situation that can be interpreted in different ways.



#10 Kalis

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 06:02 AM

It hits you but does no damage(due to a bad angle on the attack or something), so the shield obviously did not actually block the attack. The very fact that you are put on the defensive means that, the shield did not actually block anything.



#11 Lia Valenth

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 07:09 AM

Well, I don't know. The entire idea that a shield has to completely block an attack for it to take damage never made any sense to me. If you roll a 170 Projection to defend the shield will be blocking 170% of the damage rather it hits you or not. But you may be correct on how its supposed to work, I don't know.



#12 Raybras

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:08 PM

shields only take base damage+mod when successfully blocked by projection. otherwise it works like normal combat



#13 Ranga

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 09:48 AM

 I could have sworn you were only put on the defensive if you took damage.



#14 Cranza

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 01:54 PM

page 80 of anima core book states that if an attack hits but the corisponding box in the combat table is blank that the attack causes no damage but the defender is fully occupied and cannot counterattack or perform actions.

page 92 could be interperated to basicly say that shields are an anditional method of defending yourself besides block or dodge. Also besides the changes listed in that section should be treated the same.... This is at least the fair explanation I pulled but techically...

In all techicality how the rules are stated is that the shield takes all of the damage or none of it, pass or fail.
so attack<projection then shield takes damage but if attack>projection then defender takes all damage



#15 Unnamed44

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 10:34 AM

In the case of a summoner invoking the high priestess shield, role would he defer to for his defense? 



#16 Lia Valenth

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:23 PM

Unnamed44 said:

 

In the case of a summoner invoking the high priestess shield, role would he defer to for his defense? 

 

 

Defence Ability 160. The Summoner defers to the Defence of The High Priestess, which is always 160. Unless there is something that can improve it in Arcana Exxet.






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