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Could two unrevealed cylons talk on the side if they had figured one another out?


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#1 Anacreon

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 05:04 PM

If the situation arose that one unrevealed cylon came to realize who their unrevealed companion was - say, by looking at a loyalty card by legitimate means, and then lying about it to the humans, thus keeping the secret but also revealing to their companion their own cylony status - could the two unrevealed cylons ever talk to each other on the side, like during a break in the game, to strategize?  Could they begin to give each other hints about when to do something, like when to sabotage a skill check or reveal one after the other?  Perhaps, at least, make euphemistic references to one another on the side that would get at plans without actually technically breaking secrecy, as they would already know and not need to say "Hey, I'm a cylon too."  As long as the one who had peaked didn't share his reveal power to the other one?  Would this be legit?  Would it be technically legit but bad manner?  Curious minds want to know.



#2 Holy Outlaw

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 06:50 PM

Anacreon,

While it's my belief that table talk should occur at the table, and that "above board" talk with everyone present is the best and most sporting behavior, I am not aware of an official rule on private conversations. I would point out that it's impossible to enforce secrecy in these side conversations, and that such discussions in fact greatly incentivize violating secrecy. So while it's best left to your group to decide, I'd strongly advise that you reach a consensus with all players as to whether or not it's acceptable behavior before you do it. 



#3 xris

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 12:22 AM

I would agree with Holy Outlaw on this. The rule on Secrecy, page 11, doesn't really cover it but I would say that any game related discussion (at the table or away from it) should be open to everyone. How such a rule would be enforced is another matter

It really comes down to how your group wants to handle it. While I have my own personal view on this, I would discuss it with my group and follow the consensus of the group.

Don't forget that a human player could still do exactly the same in this situation as a Cylon player, not reveal the Cylon on the hope that the true Cylon thinks you are a Cylon as well. It could be used to delay any potential sabotage and then reveal the true Cylon at a more opportune time.



#4 redsimon

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 03:06 AM

I think the secrecy rules cover this case. According to them, secret talk would not be allowed.

Why? Because then you cannot control if there has been a violation of the secrecy rule or not. Only if all players here all talk you can enforce the secrecy rule at all, and if you don't, you are not playing the game according to the rules i.e. wrong.



#5 Holy Outlaw

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 03:16 PM

xris and redsimon,

It sounds like we're pretty much on the same page on this. Good to know my playgroup isn't alone in our interpretation of secrecy. 



#6 redsimon

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 12:45 PM

Ooops, I wanted to write "hear" not "here" in the above post. But I think you understood what I meant.



#7 Anacreon

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 01:54 PM

Interesting - this was a hypothetical situation above, but our play group has definitely had two human players walk away for a few moments to confer.  This happened when both cylons were already revealed and the remaining humans did not want the cylons to know what they were planning.  No one seemed to think this was too odd and since one of the cylons was in the bathroom, no one was losing patience with the time spent.  Our group has never solidified a talk-at-table rule.  I think it may be worth discussing.  Thanks.



#8 Holy Outlaw

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 07:18 PM

Anacreon,

You know, the important thing is it sounds like your group has a shared understanding and they're okay with how you've been doing it. My group is quite a bunch of hardliners; we even prohibit game talk when players leave the room for bathroom breaks or to take emergency phone calls. Generally we all then take a five at the same time and since we're all friends it gives us a chance to catch up and talk about other stuff, so that works for us. But I wouldn't expect everyone to adhere to that level of restriction, and I wouldn't worry overmuch about what your group does if everyone seems happy.



#9 Eunomiac

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 03:19 PM

Actually, we've had this come up — in our first game, two players were texting each other under the table.

My first instinct in future games was to be all "hells no, please deposit your mobile devices into the marked incinerator en route to the character-selection table," but then I thought of a better house rule:  Secret conferences between two players, maximum (no group conferences) are permitted, but every other player has to know you're secretly conferencing.

So, sure, take that player off to the side to whisper in his or her ear.  Use it to hatch a genocidal plot if you're a cylon, or use it to concoct a scheme to trick a cylon into soft-revealing if you're not; just know that the other players (who outnumber you) are going to wonder what you're being so secretive about...



#10 Holy Outlaw

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:31 PM

Eunomaniac, that sounds like a pretty good start, actually. But I'm unclear of how to implement such a rule. Do you allow the two revealed cylons to have private conversations? What about 2 of the 3 known humans? It seems to me that these private conversations would still be breeding grounds for secrecy violations, no? 



#11 Eunomiac

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 12:29 PM

No secret conferences between revealed Cylons, and no secret conferences after all Cylons have revealed.  Yeah, there are still ways to game it, but we've never had it come up.  I'd definitely hate any secret conferences between people whose loyalty wasn't in question, and would have to revise this house rule if we encounter such a situation.






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