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More questions after 2nd playthrough.


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#1 Musha Shukou

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 02:01 AM

1. Before a terror effect takes place, can you focus or cast a spell to hold a die showing a terror result? Or does the terror effect happen first, removing any chance of using those terror results for the adventure?

2. We experienced an interesting situation today with Sister Mary and the Mythos "Eldritch Knowledge...in a Disturbed Mind." This Mythos' lingering effect puts a terror effect on all adventures, replacing the terror effects that may already exist on those adventures with the one stipulated by the Mythos. Sister Mary's ability allows her to ignore all lingering effects. So it was argued that because the Mythos' lingering effect terror effect was replacing the terror effects on some adventures, that Sister Mary could go through those adventures now without any terror effects. Is this accurate?

3. Timing question. When Ithaqua is the Ancient One, and you cast the Heal spell or use the Healing Stone unique item, when do you lose the 1 Stamina from the Icy Winds ability? Before you regain your health or after?

4. The FAQ states that "when a player uses an item/spell that “defeats” a monster, that player chooses a monster in play (not necessarily at the same adventure his investigator is at) and turns that monster facedown." In the case of the Flute of the Elder Gods Unique Item, do you do this after ANY roll then? Just, any roll?

5. Continuing in the same section of the FAQ as #4 above, the FAQ states, "The monster is collected as a trophy when the player’s turn ends (and not before), whether the investigator succeeds at the adventure or not. What if the investigator was not attempting to resolve the adventure that contained the monster he just 'defeated'? Does he still claim the trophy? Or does he leave the monster turned over until he (or another investigator) goes to that adventure and completes it?

6. With the Ally, Anna Kaslow, do you put a sanity on it every time you LOSE sanity? Or do sanity COSTS count for this, too?

7. The rewards section of an adventure card entitled "Late Night Break-in" is a dark green, while all the rest of the adventure cards are very light green. What gives?



#2 xris

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 03:03 AM

Musha Shukou said:

1. Before a terror effect takes place, can you focus or cast a spell to hold a die showing a terror result? Or does the terror effect happen first, removing any chance of using those terror results for the adventure? 

It is clear that the player "announces" he has failed. Before he makes this announcement he can do things like
(i) play Clue tokens (to re-roll a Terror result)
(ii) make use of any special abilities his Investigator has (such as Mandy's ability to re-roll dice).
(iii) cast any Spells
After he makes the announcement he can do things like
(iv) Focus or Assist.

The rules back this up for (i) see page 10, Using Clues and for (iv) see page 10, Focusing and Assisting. For (ii) I think it is clear that special abilities that re-roll or change the dice results have to happen before you announce you have failed or not (i.e. same as Clues).

You can't Focus or Assist until after you announce you have failed, so I don't think you can Focus/Assist a Terror result because the Terror effect is applied as soon as you announce you have failed to complete a task. Focusing and Assisting only apply after the Terror effect has been applied.

The sticking point would be for (iii) casting Spells as the rules are not clear. I think that since you can apply the Spell before you announce if you have failed a roll or not then it does not trigger the Terror effect if it was the Terror result you play on the Spell (note: if you rolled two Terror effects then you would need to play 2 Spells to hold both for them not to count).
There is a very good argument for the opposite, since you rolled the Terror result then it doesn't matter if you move the Terror result onto a Spell or not, you rolled it so it should trigger the Terror effect.

I think that it will require your game group to resolve which way they want to play (iii) since it isn't covered in the rules or in the FAQ.

Musha Shukou said:

2. We experienced an interesting situation today with Sister Mary and the Mythos "Eldritch Knowledge...in a Disturbed Mind." This Mythos' lingering effect puts a terror effect on all adventures, replacing the terror effects that may already exist on those adventures with the one stipulated by the Mythos. Sister Mary's ability allows her to ignore all lingering effects. So it was argued that because the Mythos' lingering effect terror effect was replacing the terror effects on some adventures, that Sister Mary could go through those adventures now without any terror effects. Is this accurate?

I think this is a fair thing to say. Sister Mary "may ignore any lingering effects" so this applies to "in a Disturbed Mind." and others such as "...Of a Conspiracy." and "...Reveal a False Trail.", etc., etc.

Musha Shukou said:

3. Timing question. When Ithaqua is the Ancient One, and you cast the Heal spell or use the Healing Stone unique item, when do you lose the 1 Stamina from the Icy Winds ability? Before you regain your health or after?

Again, open to interpretation. Play the way you wish.

I think I would say that Icy Winds applies first and then the Items is applied.

Musha Shukou said:

4. The FAQ states that "when a player uses an item/spell that “defeats” a monster, that player chooses a monster in play (not necessarily at the same adventure his investigator is at) and turns that monster facedown." In the case of the Flute of the Elder Gods Unique Item, do you do this after ANY roll then? Just, any roll?

Not sure if you specifically mean that any player may play this (out of turn) or if you want to define "after rolling".

The FAQ does state that "cards" (i.e. Items and Spells) can't be used on other player's turns unless they specifically say so, and that "no such card exists".

Musha Shukou said:

5. Continuing in the same section of the FAQ as #4 above, the FAQ states, "The monster is collected as a trophy when the player’s turn ends (and not before), whether the investigator succeeds at the adventure or not. What if the investigator was not attempting to resolve the adventure that contained the monster he just 'defeated'? Does he still claim the trophy? Or does he leave the monster turned over until he (or another investigator) goes to that adventure and completes it?

I think the FAQ is clear on this, the player who played the card collects the trophy.
"The monster is collected as a trophy when the player’s turn ends (and not before), whether the investigator succeeds at the adventure or not."
If it doesn't go the active player, then where does it go? It doesn't matter if the monster was on a different Adventure card to the Investigator, the active player collects the trophy.

Musha Shukou said:

6. With the Ally, Anna Kaslow, do you put a sanity on it every time you LOSE sanity? Or do sanity COSTS count for this, too?

I think costs and loss is the same in this case. Given the FAQ states that "losing and spending sanity/stamina" is the same thing, I would take it that "costs" means you are "spending".

Musha Shukou said:

7. The rewards section of an adventure card entitled "Late Night Break-in" is a dark green, while all the rest of the adventure cards are very light green. What gives?

Come on, you are pushing this minor printing defeat a bit far. It is not a "dark green", it is exactly the same pattern as all the other cards, it is just that the contrast is turned up a bit :)



#3 Musha Shukou

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 08:54 AM

xris said:

Musha Shukou said:

4. The FAQ states that "when a player uses an item/spell that “defeats” a monster, that player chooses a monster in play (not necessarily at the same adventure his investigator is at) and turns that monster facedown." In the case of the Flute of the Elder Gods Unique Item, do you do this after ANY roll then? Just, any roll?

 

Not sure if you specifically mean that any player may play this (out of turn) or if you want to define "after rolling".

The FAQ does state that "cards" (i.e. Items and Spells) can't be used on other player's turns unless they specifically say so, and that "no such card exists".

Musha Shukou said:

5. Continuing in the same section of the FAQ as #4 above, the FAQ states, "The monster is collected as a trophy when the player’s turn ends (and not before), whether the investigator succeeds at the adventure or not. What if the investigator was not attempting to resolve the adventure that contained the monster he just 'defeated'? Does he still claim the trophy? Or does he leave the monster turned over until he (or another investigator) goes to that adventure and completes it?

 

I think the FAQ is clear on this, the player who played the card collects the trophy.
"The monster is collected as a trophy when the player’s turn ends (and not before), whether the investigator succeeds at the adventure or not."
If it doesn't go the active player, then where does it go? It doesn't matter if the monster was on a different Adventure card to the Investigator, the active player collects the trophy.

4. Yes, I know it has to be on the card holder's turn. What I mean is, with Flute of the Elder Gods, all you have to do is roll for a task that's on an adventure card, and then blast away a monster that's on a different adventure card, not associated at all with the task you just rolled for? I'm just having a hard time grasping that. I would think you would have to be making a roll ON the monster itself, but any roll would kill it.

5. So, it IS saying that you can be on an adventure card, play bind monster, and kill a monster that is on a completely different adventure card and still claim it as a trophy?



#4 xris

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 09:57 AM

Musha Shukou said:

4. Yes, I know it has to be on the card holder's turn. What I mean is, with Flute of the Elder Gods, all you have to do is roll for a task that's on an adventure card, and then blast away a monster that's on a different adventure card, not associated at all with the task you just rolled for? I'm just having a hard time grasping that. I would think you would have to be making a roll ON the monster itself, but any roll would kill it.

The FAQ is not at all clear if using either of the "defeat a monster" cards counts as "completing a task".

On BGG I asked Richard Launius how he played such cards and he replied saying that it did count as completing a task, so no matter what you rolled you could always play the card to defeat a monster and therefore complete a task. This also meant that you couldn't complete any other task that turn but that you could ignore any Terror effect (if any applied).

He did say that a "defeat a monster" card on it own couldn't complete a partial monster task without at least rolling the rest of the partial monster requirements. When you used the card on a partial monster task, you needed to complete the "non-monster" requirements using the dice.

Now with the FAQ, I'm not sure any of this applies any more. The FAQ seems to say that using these cards on a partial monster will defeat the monster but then it "uncovers" the requirements that the monster was covering.
"Note that if a monster is only partially covering a task, any uncovered parts of the task are still uncompleted for purposes of succeeding at the adventure."

I also get the impression that with the FAQ, the use of these cards is basically "outside" the usual complete a task procedure. It seems to be more like an interrupt, blip - a monster is defeated, flip over the monster marker and then return to what you were doing. It doesn't "count" as completing a task.

Musha Shukou said:

5. So, it IS saying that you can be on an adventure card, play bind monster, and kill a monster that is on a completely different adventure card and still claim it as a trophy?

Yes. I think they took this approach to get round the problems people were having with "impossible Adventure cards".

Previously to the FAQ, when a monster is added to an "arrowed" Adventure card it becomes the last task on the card. In some cases this might make the Adventure "impossible", or close to impossible, to complete because it might now require more dice than there are available. If the monster was one that locked a die, then it might remain locked for the rest of the game.

Now, with this ruling it is possible to defeat the monster without even visiting the Adventure card. You can defeat any monster in any location. It means the "defeat a monster" card is needed for those difficult situations where, for example, a die is locked on a arrowed Adventure card.






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