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Questions after first playthrough


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#1 Musha Shukou

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 11:12 PM

1. When the terror effect is to discard all terror dice, how exactly is this supposed to work? All dice in the roll that show the terror icon are discarded? Or does this include all dice on the adventure card being used for a completed terror roll?

2. The rulebook says that as long as you complete 1 or more tasks on a monster, even if you fail the adventure, you still claim the monster as a trophy. Is this what it's supposed to say? Or am I misunderstanding this? I am taking this to mean if you are playing an adventure that has a Cultist on it, and Shub-Niggurath is the Ancient One, all other tasks are completed, and you have only 1 die left, you can still roll this die, and as long as you roll a peril or a lore (the task requirement for the Cultist) OR a terror (the added task req from Shub) you can still kill this monster, even though you didn't finish the task.

3. Can you have more than 1 monster token on an adventure card?

4. With the Bind Monster spell, do you simply play it at ANY time to discard ANY monster? Or can it only be played on the holder's turn to discard a monster on the same adventure card as you?

5. Can you play cards on other players' turns, essentially giving them extra dice or other bonuses?

6. Can you trade items with other players? If so, how does it work, and is it limited to just the item cards or can you trade clue tokens, too?

7. Somebody please explain the strategic value of spells. I'm wondering about the spells that allow you to place a die on them. Perhaps I'm just not understanding how they are meant to be used, but it seems completely worthless to me to reduce the amount of dice you have available for a task just so you can save up a die to use later on in the game.



#2 xris

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 12:44 AM

I suggest you start by reading the new official FAQ.

Musha Shukou said:

1. When the terror effect is to discard all terror dice, how exactly is this supposed to work? All dice in the roll that show the terror icon are discarded? Or does this include all dice on the adventure card being used for a completed terror roll?

The rules are not clear on this but if you think about it there is really only one way to play this.

I don't think there is any case where you remove dice from completed tasks, for any reason. Not for Terror effects, not for dice that need to be Locked.

After you announce you have failed to complete a task, you then remove any dice from your dice pool that show a Terror result (so, you discard any dice that a Terror result from your previous dice roll).

Don't forget that you can use a Clue before you announce you have failed to complete a task, so it is possible to use a Clue to "remove" a Terror result before you announce you have failed (or at least a 5 in 6 chance of removing a Terror result).

Musha Shukou said:

2. The rulebook says that as long as you complete 1 or more tasks on a monster, even if you fail the adventure, you still claim the monster as a trophy. Is this what it's supposed to say? Or am I misunderstanding this? I am taking this to mean if you are playing an adventure that has a Cultist on it, and Shub-Niggurath is the Ancient One, all other tasks are completed, and you have only 1 die left, you can still roll this die, and as long as you roll a peril or a lore (the task requirement for the Cultist) OR a terror (the added task req from Shub) you can still kill this monster, even though you didn't finish the task.

Hmmm, you started off OK but then you seemed to enter some strange territory. This might imply that you are misunderstanding something but it is difficult to determine what your thoughts are.

Cultist and Shub-Niggurath mean you are being very specific so I'm not sure why you are using this for a more generic question on completing monster tasks.

It is true that you can claim any monsters you completed even if you failed the Adventure. It may be easier if you follow the suggestion in the FAQ. If you complete a monster task, flip to face down immediately. At the end of the Adventure you claim any flipped over Monster tasks even if you did not complete the Adventure.

Shub-Niggurath was possibly made more complex (or more prone to misunderstanding) with the FAQ I think. As far as I can tell, Monsters now have TWO tasks that need be completed before the monster may be claimed. Two tasks means at least 2 rolls of the dice to complete both. If you only have one dice left then you cannot complete the Monster tasks.

I am still unsure where your confusion lies with this question. Shub-Niggurath does indeed introduce a number of issues which the FAQ doesn't do a good job in explaining.

Musha Shukou said:

3. Can you have more than 1 monster token on an adventure card?

Yes, definitely. Read the FAQ > Monsters > Placing Monsters.

Musha Shukou said:

4. With the Bind Monster spell, do you simply play it at ANY time to discard ANY monster? Or can it only be played on the holder's turn to discard a monster on the same adventure card as you?

The FAQ makes it clear that on your turn, you can play it to discard any monster from any location. This is a big change to the rules I think, that you can play the "Defeat a monster" Items on monsters not is the same location. But then, this ruling solves the "Impossible Adventure" issues now.

The question I have is that does playing the "Defeat a monster" Item mean you have completed a task. In discussion with Richard Launius, he indicated that in the way he plays it does, but the FAQ seems to imply otherwise (that it is "outside" the scope of completing a task).

Musha Shukou said:

5. Can you play cards on other players' turns, essentially giving them extra dice or other bonuses?

No, see the FAQ > Item, Spells, Clues & Allies.

Musha Shukou said:

6. Can you trade items with other players? If so, how does it work, and is it limited to just the item cards or can you trade clue tokens, too?

No, you may not trade items.

Musha Shukou said:

7. Somebody please explain the strategic value of spells. I'm wondering about the spells that allow you to place a die on them. Perhaps I'm just not understanding how they are meant to be used, but it seems completely worthless to me to reduce the amount of dice you have available for a task just so you can save up a die to use later on in the game.

Spells can be utilised tactically or strategically. Tactically they can be used during your turn to complete a task. For example, if you do not (or don't want) to play any Clues and you fail a task, you could Focus a dice and cast a Spell saving two dice that would almost complete a task. You then discard a die and have another roll of the remaining dice needing only one more specific result (since you have the other two saved).

Another example for tactical use. You complete a task but notice you rolled a requirement needed for the next task. Play the Spell and save it ready for the next roll.

Strategically, you could go the same but are looking ahead to help the next player. You complete an Adventure card and notice the spare dice you rolled would help another player at another location partially complete a task.



#3 Musha Shukou

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 07:51 AM

 Thanks for the answers. Those were nice and clear. All except #2; let me see if I can better explain my confusion.

On page 11 of the rulebook, last paragraph of the Monsters section it reads, "If a player successfully completed one or more tasks on a Monster marker (or a task which includes a Monster marker, as in the case of a partial monster task) before failing to resolve the Adventure card it is on, he still gains the Monster marker."

First, it seems as though they are using the word 'task' to mean 2 different things: an entire row of requirement icons AND each individual requirement icon in that row. And therein lies my confusion. I come to this conclusion because NO monster in the game has more than one row of requirement icons.

If this is the case, then when fighting a monster that has 2 requirement icons, let's say a peril and a terror, then, according to the rules, all you actually need is a peril OR a terror, and only 1 die will suffice. You've completed all other tasks on the adventure card except the monster, you have 1 die left, and you roll a peril. Well, you didn't complete all the tasks on the adventure, so you failed it, but you completed 1 task on the monster (you completed 1 icon on the monster). According to the rules, you may claim this monster as a trophy.

Regardless of their usage of the word 'task,' the way they word that explanation STILL makes it sound as if that is the case -- only 1 icon needs to be completed before taking a monster as a trophy, if you fail the adventure.



#4 xris

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 08:31 AM

Musha Shukou said:

Thanks for the answers. Those were nice and clear. All except #2; let me see if I can better explain my confusion.

On page 11 of the rulebook, last paragraph of the Monsters section it reads, "If a player successfully completed one or more tasks on a Monster marker (or a task which includes a Monster marker, as in the case of a partial monster task) before failing to resolve the Adventure card it is on, he still gains the Monster marker."

First, it seems as though they are using the word 'task' to mean 2 different things: an entire row of requirement icons AND each individual requirement icon in that row. And therein lies my confusion. I come to this conclusion because NO monster in the game has more than one row of requirement icons.

If this is the case, then when fighting a monster that has 2 requirement icons, let's say a peril and a terror, then, according to the rules, all you actually need is a peril OR a terror, and only 1 die will suffice. You've completed all other tasks on the adventure card except the monster, you have 1 die left, and you roll a peril. Well, you didn't complete all the tasks on the adventure, so you failed it, but you completed 1 task on the monster (you completed 1 icon on the monster). According to the rules, you may claim this monster as a trophy.

Regardless of their usage of the word 'task,' the way they word that explanation STILL makes it sound as if that is the case -- only 1 icon needs to be completed before taking a monster as a trophy, if you fail the adventure.

Let's take your example of the Cultist. It shows one box on the monster marker, one requirement. This is a single task with one requirement, either a single Peril or a single Lore.

This is confirmed on Page 6 of the rules, Tasks. It even shows the exact same split combination.
"A split die result. Either of the results shown will meet this requirement."

Next, page 11 of the rules.
"If a player successfully completed one or more tasks on a Monster marker (or a task which includes a Monster marker, as in the case of a partial monster task) before failing to resolve the Adventure card it is on, he still gains the Monster marker."

I can understand your confusion with this paragraph as I am also confused by it. I've tried to understand what it is trying to say ever since I got the game and I have failed. I believe the problem is that there is an actual typo somewhere in the paragraph, a typo or an error.  As it stands it doesn't make sense but then how much of the rulebook shows the same sloppy descriptions and inconsistencies.

In my mind the paragraph makes a lot more sense if you replace the word "tasks" in the first sentence with the word "requirements" but then you still need to make further changes.

"If a player successfully completed all of the requirements on a Monster marker (or all requirements which includes a Monster marker, as in the case of a partial monster task) before failing to resolve the Adventure card it is on, he still gains the Monster marker."

Written like this, I think it makes sense now. There are no monster markers with more than one task, after all, a "task" is a consecutive row of requirements. From page 5 of the rules, Tasks.
"Each Adventure card features one or more horizontal rows of symbols. Each of these rows is a task that must be completed in order resolve the Adventure card."

I think this applies to Monster markers as well.

The problem now, is that the FAQ has restated the Shub-Niggurath's special ability without actually offering any clarification.

"Can you clarify Shub-Niggurath’s Black Goat of the Wood ability?
Shub-Niggurath’s ability adds a new task, consisting of a single terror symbol, to each monster."

At first I thought the FAQ might be in error and it should have said
"Shub-Niggurath’s ability adds a new requirement, consisting of a single terror symbol, to each monster."

But is doesn't, it says "Task". If we take this as true, it now means each Monster Marker consists of two separate tasks. A new single Terror requirement task and the original Monster marker task. To complete such a monster, you need to complete two separate tasks, therefore require two separate rolls.

If we have a Cultist, now it requires
(i) A single Terror requirement, and
(ii) A single Peril or Lore requirement.

Due to the "clarification" in the FAQ, it appears these are two separate tasks that need completing before you can claim the Cultist as being complete and defeated. Therefore, with this example, you now require two dice to complete the monster task.



#5 Musha Shukou

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 01:14 AM

xris said:

"Can you clarify Shub-Niggurath’s Black Goat of the Wood ability?

Shub-Niggurath’s ability adds a new task, consisting of a single terror symbol, to each monster."

At first I thought the FAQ might be in error and it should have said
"Shub-Niggurath’s ability adds a new requirement, consisting of a single terror symbol, to each monster."

But is doesn't, it says "Task". If we take this as true, it now means each Monster Marker consists of two separate tasks. A new single Terror requirement task and the original Monster marker task. To complete such a monster, you need to complete two separate tasks, therefore require two separate rolls.

If we have a Cultist, now it requires
(i) A single Terror requirement, and
(ii) A single Peril or Lore requirement.

Due to the "clarification" in the FAQ, it appears these are two separate tasks that need completing before you can claim the Cultist as being complete and defeated. Therefore, with this example, you now require two dice to complete the monster task.

Yes, I read that and came to the same conclusion. It is worded that the task has a SINGLE requirement, which implies that it is a task all by itself.



#6 Vala_Melkor

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 04:54 AM

That's interesting ... and rather devious, mwahahahahhaaa!  Monsters with two tasks ... that would be a tough nut to crack.

 

Haven't played Shub yet, so I think we'll give it a go at the club this weekend! Thanks guys ... Walts


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe... [laughs] Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched cBeams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those... moments... will be lost in time, like [coughs] tears... in... rain. Time... to die...

 





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