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#1 Nanich

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 07:41 PM

I have an overrun question.

The rules say that a tank can over run a hex with just squads, but the movement cost is +1 for each UNIT there. The question is what is considered a  unit in this case? Are the unit figures? So if a squad has 4 figure it would cost +4 to over run? I think each squad is a unit; therefore, a squad with 4 figures is still only +1 to movement.

 

The other question related to entrencments and  trenches. The rules say that tanks can not enter these. The question came up that if a tank can not enter them, how can they overrun units that are in them? I think that the tanks can still overrun. My thinking is that the trenches are large enough to fit squads, but too small to fit a tank.

 

 

 

Don



#2 waging_war

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 02:07 PM

Nanich said:

I have an overrun question.

The rules say that a tank can over run a hex with just squads, but the movement cost is +1 for each UNIT there. The question is what is considered a  unit in this case? Are the unit figures? So if a squad has 4 figure it would cost +4 to over run? I think each squad is a unit; therefore, a squad with 4 figures is still only +1 to movement.

 

The other question related to entrencments and  trenches. The rules say that tanks can not enter these. The question came up that if a tank can not enter them, how can they overrun units that are in them? I think that the tanks can still overrun. My thinking is that the trenches are large enough to fit squads, but too small to fit a tank.

 

 

 

Don

A unit is always a squad, not the individuals in the squad. To overrun a hex with 3 squads costs +3 movement.

If a tank overruns a hex with 1 squad in a pillbox and 2 squads outside the pillbox, it costs +3 movement and the 2 squads outside the pillbox are pinned. The squad inside the pillbox is unaffected. Squads inside pillboxs and entrenchments add to the overrun movement cost but are unaffected by the overrun. Squads inside a transport within the overrun hex are also unaffected by the overrun(as is the transport) but they don't add to the overrun movement cost(the transport does).

I hope that helps. It's a little confusing, feel free to message me.



#3 Nanich

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 11:36 AM

So units in entrenchments will not be pinned? What about units in trenches? Will they be pinned?

 

Don



#4 waging_war

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 08:22 AM

Nanich said:

So units in entrenchments will not be pinned? What about units in trenches? Will they be pinned?

 

Don

I only have the base game so I can't really help you with questions regarding expansions. If I had to take a guess I would say no, units in trenches would not be pinned but that's only a guess.



#5 panzerjaeger

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 10:04 AM

Nanich said:

 

So units in entrenchments will not be pinned? What about units in trenches? Will they be pinned?

 

Don

 

 

 

The FotB rules that add trenches don't address the Overrun ability, so here's my thinking:

1.  If you want to be a strict rules lawyer, nowhere does it say that units in trenches are immune from overrun...

 

2.  however common sense would dictate that if units in entrenchments are immune, then units in trenches should be also.

 

Take your pick and probably discuss with your opponent ahead of time and come to an agreed consensus until an errata/faq is release for FotB.

 

Regarding entrenchments I believe the units in the entrenchment would count toward the movement cost of the overrunning tank, and they are definitely not pinned according to the base game rules.



#6 panzerjaeger

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 10:08 AM

Nanich said:

 

I have an overrun question.

The rules say that a tank can over run a hex with just squads, but the movement cost is +1 for each UNIT there. The question is what is considered a  unit in this case? Are the unit figures? So if a squad has 4 figure it would cost +4 to over run? I think each squad is a unit; therefore, a squad with 4 figures is still only +1 to movement.

 

The other question related to entrencments and  trenches. The rules say that tanks can not enter these. The question came up that if a tank can not enter them, how can they overrun units that are in them? I think that the tanks can still overrun. My thinking is that the trenches are large enough to fit squads, but too small to fit a tank.

 

 

 

Don

 

 

 

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe your initial assumption is right.  I don't think the rules ever state that the hex you overrun has to only be squads.  I know that vehicles are unaffected by overrun, but I believe they can be present.

 

The other part of your question about tanks entering trenches...tanks can enter the hex with trenches, but cannot enter the trench fortification itself.  So a tank could overrun a hex with trenches in it, but couldn't occupy the trench itself and take advantage of its cover.



#7 RayGuns

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 12:22 AM

I feel the rules are pretty clear about this, so I will just quote the rulebook:

"Overrun: Unlike other units, a tank may move through (but
never remain in) a hex containing enemy units (even through a
hex that is at the stacking limit). The movement cost for an
overrun is the normal cost to enter the hex plus one movement
point for each enemy unit in the hex. Immediately after the
active tank leaves such an overrun hex, every enemy squad in
the hex immediately becomes pinned (vehicles are unaffected, as
are squads being transported in vehicles or located in entrenchments/
pillboxes). Squads already pinned or disrupted are unaffected.
A tank may never end its movement in a hex containing
enemy units."

However "entrenchments/pillboxes" should now say "entrenchments/pillboxes/trenches" due to the new fortification type added by the FotB expansion.

1) units = squads, vehicles (tanks, trucks, half-tracks), anti-tank guns. Counting all units in a hex including those in a fortification (entrenchments/pillboxes/trenches*)

2) only squads get pinned unless they are in entrenchments/pillboxes/trenches

3) squads already pinned or disrupted are unaffected. (clearly stated in rules)

4) Panzerjaeger is correct. Tanks can enter the hex with entrenchments/pillboxes/trenches, but cannot enter the entrenchment/pillbox/trench fortification itself. So a tank could overrun a hex with entrenchments/pillboxes/trenches in it, but couldn't occupy the trench itself and take advantage of its cover.

Example: if a tank wants to overrun a clear terrain hex containing 1x tank, 1x truck, 1x squad that is in an entrenchment. The movement cost to overrun that hex would be +1 for the terrain and +3 for the three units in the hex for a total of 4 movement points. So it would need a minimum of 5 movement points to pass through the hex as it can never remain in that hex. If it doesn't have the 5 movement points, then it can't attempt it. Immediately after the tank leaves the hex, nothing is pinned.

 






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