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HELP: on 'at the start of Raymond's turn'


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#1 popsky

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 05:51 PM

hello, guys. i just played the last time with one problem causing verbal fights between  us, namely my girlfriend who was playing Raymond and my friend who was playing Louis.

what happened was that Louis played Raymond's card: "Play at the start of Raymond's turn. Raymond loses all favor of one favor of your choice" or something like that, i dont have the card on me at the time writing this.

But>>> Raymond has a light twilight card that says "PLay at the start of your turn. every other player discards all of your dark cards"

 

SO, WHICH CARD TAKES THE FIRST EFFECT SINCE BOTH SAYS "AT THE START"?

please help my, your answer would very much stop this dispute between us so we can stop playing bang! and back to Android :D thanks



#2 BrandonCarpenter

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 09:32 PM

popsky said:

hello, guys. i just played the last time with one problem causing verbal fights between  us, namely my girlfriend who was playing Raymond and my friend who was playing Louis.

what happened was that Louis played Raymond's card: "Play at the start of Raymond's turn. Raymond loses all favor of one favor of your choice" or something like that, i dont have the card on me at the time writing this.

But>>> Raymond has a light twilight card that says "PLay at the start of your turn. every other player discards all of your dark cards"

 

SO, WHICH CARD TAKES THE FIRST EFFECT SINCE BOTH SAYS "AT THE START"?

please help my, your answer would very much stop this dispute between us so we can stop playing bang! and back to Android :D thanks

I don't have the game near me at the moment, but generally either the person with the first player token decides, or in clockwise order starting with the person with the first player token. 

... had to look it up online. I had a feeling it was my second choice because the first player token doesn't move normally. I found it on Page 29, Cardplay Priority:

 

Often, more than one player will want to play a twilight
card in response to the same event. However, only one
dark card and one light card may be played in response to
a single event. First, determine which player gets to play
a dark card. If there is a disagreement, the first player has
priority to play a card. If he chooses not to play a card,
priority passes clockwise from him. After the dark card
has been played and resolved, the active player may then
play his light card, assuming that he can still fulfill its
requirements.

 

So, Dark Cards before Light Cards. If more than one person wants to play a dark card, first player has first opportunity, then clockwise from there.



#3 popsky

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 02:29 PM

okay, thanks a lot. now my girlfriend stops playing andoid! hahaha

so, anyway, the term of at the start of someone's turn means before he/she makes a move. so to avoid being whacked at the beggining of your turn, would it be better to just make your first move in order to avoid dark-at-the-start card? os should we wait for anyone to play a dark at the start?

and i didnt see, even in the quote you gave above, that a dark card takes presedence. logically thinking, both can be played at the start, only the problem is who gets the first 'start'. i really need a moderator insight on this one just to clarify.

thanks, it really means a lot since it's the first games, and now still the only, i ever bought and i still want to master this game :D



#4 subochre

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 09:27 AM

popsky said:

so, anyway, the term of at the start of someone's turn means before he/she makes a move. so to avoid being whacked at the beggining of your turn, would it be better to just make your first move in order to avoid dark-at-the-start card? os should we wait for anyone to play a dark at the start?

and i didnt see, even in the quote you gave above, that a dark card takes presedence. logically thinking, both can be played at the start, only the problem is who gets the first 'start'. i really need a moderator insight on this one just to clarify.

Yeah, everyone has to be given the opportunity to play a dark card whenever it is possible to do so.  Generally they will have planned this out in advance though, so you don't need to announce it at the start of your turn or anything, they'll usually say "before you do anything, I'm playing this" or even "wait up a second, I might want to do something" if you start taking actions prematurely.

The moderators don't really comment on rules questions around here; your best bet is to contact customer service, but I do agree with BrandonCarpenter's interpretation.  The only reason I can see for thinking that the "dark cards first, then light cards" rule might not apply in this case is that one might reasonably think that the start of your turn doesn't count as an event that the players are responding to.  But p. 26 of the rules makes it sound like it does: "Dark cards do not cost Time to play because they are played on another player’s turn, and they may only be played in response to the actions of that player (for example, that player starting his turn, that player moving his detective to a major location, etc.)."



#5 BrandonCarpenter

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 07:04 PM

popsky said:

okay, thanks a lot. now my girlfriend stops playing andoid! hahaha

so, anyway, the term of at the start of someone's turn means before he/she makes a move. so to avoid being whacked at the beggining of your turn, would it be better to just make your first move in order to avoid dark-at-the-start card? os should we wait for anyone to play a dark at the start?

and i didnt see, even in the quote you gave above, that a dark card takes presedence. logically thinking, both can be played at the start, only the problem is who gets the first 'start'. i really need a moderator insight on this one just to clarify.

thanks, it really means a lot since it's the first games, and now still the only, i ever bought and i still want to master this game :D

 

That is a tactic, I guess, but one I think is in poor sportsmanship. That's no different than telling someone, "no."

No one is saying you have to wait ten seconds before you make your first move. Neither should you back up a step because someone was too slow to play a card. I play slower around new players so they understand when to play cards, but after a few turns I begin to speed up, but I don't play so quickly that I'm actively trying to deny people from playing cards on me. 

----

To answer your question specifically the timing is this:

(start of Raymond's turn)

Louis plays his Dark Twilight card (Raymond loses Favor)

Raymond plays his Light Twilight card (Dark Raymond cards are discarded)

(Raymond takes his turn)

----

I don't know if this kind of game is something your girlfriend likes, but if you convince her to play again you could explain to her that:

  • the game has a noir theme to it, so it is a little dark and even though you are the hero, you are not impervious. Bad things happen and they come at you sideways.
  • not many games ask you to juggle your professional life with your private life. Raymond is trying to find the killer, but he really likes to drink. Sometimes the liquor gets the better of him.

There's a lot going on and it can look overwhelming, but that should just mean the reward will be that much sweeter. :-)


 

 

 

 

 

 



#6 instinctive

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:51 AM

Revisiting this old case:

 

Raymond's card "I've got no time to be distracted" says, "Play at the start of your turn," but it does NOT say "This card costs 0 Time to play." Thus he must spend 1 Time to play it, and only as the first action of his turn. Which means other players can play their "start of turn" dark cards on him.

 

So in the OP's case, his girlfriend as Raymond would not be able to stop Louis from playing "Don't call us again, Flint," as that dark card takes place in response to the "start of turn" event. The "clockwise from first player" rules does not matter here.

 

The order of events:

1. Raymond's turn starts.

2. Louis plays "Don't call us again, Flint" in response to (1).

3. Raymond takes his first action. He can choose to play "I've got no time to be distracted," at the cost of 1 Time, but (2) will already have occurred and his favors (of one type) will be gone.


Edited by instinctive, 13 December 2013 - 01:51 AM.





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