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Armor/Defense/Soak


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#1 bigity

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 10:57 AM

Has anyone tweak the armor stats to remove defense from the armor suits?  It makes some sense to me that shields add defense, but not suits of armor - they don't stop attacks from hitting you, they reduce the impact.

 

Also, have folks already added more armor types to the game - studded leather, etc.



#2 Emirikol

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 04:27 PM

Studded was on my equipment to do list..but I think it's going to wait.

"Deflection" would be something akin to justifying the defense I suppose.  Wouldn't hurt to give it "Reduce Pierce 1."

 

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#3 socratim

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 06:55 PM

Well, I think, some armour DOES help you with the actual defence. Like the difference between robe and cloth. Cloth gives you 1 soak, because it is passive. But the robe gives you 1 def, because you can use it to entangle weapons or body-parts.

 

So I always saw it that more maneuverable armour-types give you a defense-bonus. Because you can use the armour to your advantage. With the very heavy ones this is lost in the bullyness.

 

That's how I envision and like it.

 

 



#4 Yepesnopes

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 11:06 PM

Actually, in the late middle age there were some plate armours designed with special shapes so they were more efficient deflecting blows and arrows.  Now I can only recall the Gothic plate armour, but may be there are more.


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#5 socratim

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 11:11 PM

Either way my group likes this diversity, be it realistically or not, since you have to think about your fighting style and corresponding armour.



#6 Romus

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 04:21 AM

 I think it is okay for armor to have defence because it is  lending a hand in reducing potential extra damage from boons or extra hammers. 



#7 Doc, the Weasel

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 06:49 AM

Yepesnopes said:

Actually, in the late middle age there were some plate armours designed with special shapes so they were more efficient deflecting blows and arrows.  Now I can only recall the Gothic plate armour, but may be there are more.

This.


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#8 LoveSkylark

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:38 PM

 I don't think of it as hit and miss, but as deflect /absorb (the other stuff is based on your skills and equipment)

For example if you hit someone at 45% angle in a platemale it gonna get deflected and slide off you, do the same to a a guy in cloths it gona go right through.

So the more armor you have the more accurate your hits need to be hence (harder to hit for damage)

Soak is how much of the blow the armor is gona absorb when you do get a good hit.

 

The only thing I feel is missing is from armor is abilites like weapons have.  Something to reflect that some types of armor work better against blunt weapons whil other work best against pierce



#9 bigity

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 03:31 AM

Are there any additional armor types outside of what's in the player's guide released in other supplements since then?  I guess there is only so much you can do with a system with no hit locations.



#10 LoveSkylark

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 03:52 AM

bigity said:

I guess there is only so much you can do with a system with no hit locations.

No, but its easy enough to do, average out the defense value (defense of body and legs) then assign soak value to each hit location depending on the armor.

 

A man in chainmail wearing leather trousers and a pot helm would have:

Soak: Head(5) Arms(3) Body(3) Legs(2)

Defense:1



#11 Gallows

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 06:27 AM

bigity said:

Are there any additional armor types outside of what's in the player's guide released in other supplements since then?  I guess there is only so much you can do with a system with no hit locations.

 

Heh. I've always found hit locations in RPGs pointless. As a practicioner of Shotokan for 9-10 years when I was younger, I'd say the area you hit is as much a result of an opening as an aimed effort - against a trained individual that is.

 

The same with ranged weapon. You may aim at his pinkie, but as he strikes his foe you hit his arm instead.

 

WFRP does have hit locations when relevant though (criticals with specific hit locations offering specific damage to that body part).



#12 Nisses

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 03:26 AM

 Hit locations doesn't really add anything to the game either that critical & permanent wounds can't take care of.

 

I still think armor & weapons were abstracted a little too much.
A card that represents an inherent trait of your weapon might be handy to diversify "handweapons" at least.

Something like: 
Long sword:
          piercing (remove 1 white die from your pool before rolling, gain +1 pierce)
          slashing (add 2 white die to your pool, and 1 black)

Warhammer
          busting (remove 1 characteristic die from your pool), gain: 2boon = ignore armor 

Dagger
          close combat: give up your free manoeuvre this turn to gain +2 pierce

 

It would make the basic attack actions a lot more interesting, since you would be able to create your own "actions" on the fly.
You could attach this to specialisation in weaponskill. That way, you can specialise in Long Sword twice for example, once for each "ability".

Magical weapons are rare enough, you should have something to give a little love to the weapons-part of the system :)


 

 



#13 LoveSkylark

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 02:58 AM

Gallows said:

bigity said:

 

Heh. I've always found hit locations in RPGs pointless. As a practicioner of Shotokan for 9-10 years when I was younger, I'd say the area you hit is as much a result of an opening as an aimed effort - against a trained individual that is.

I don't agree and it has mostly to do with rewarding players, with the current system there is no way for the player to find unique helmet, gauntlet etc that adds to their defence value without completely unbalancing the game.

standard character development is: start with basic stuff, buy good quality, then find extra specialised armor,

With the current system you can't give a player extras soak or defence if he allredy has full platemail for example, because it's to much, gaining 1 armor on head in the old system still left the player with 5 other hit loactions that had normal armor.

 

One solution could be to use boons, instead of randomizing hit loactions just allow  a success full hit to use boons to determin where the blow lands,

1 boon = arms/legs

2 boons = head/groin other spesific  locations

or if the player wants to do a called shot:

aiming for arms/legs is a moderate (2xmis) strike

aiming for head/groin is a difficult (3xmis) strike

 



#14 Matchstickman

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 06:31 AM

LoveSkylark said:

 

I don't agree and it has mostly to do with rewarding players, with the current system there is no way for the player to find unique helmet, gauntlet etc that adds to their defence value without completely unbalancing the game.

 

 

Just to pick this particular line out, Defence and Soak aren't the only stats that Armour type items have. There's encumberance as well, reduced encumberance is certainly welcome (a lighter helm for instance). Or a shield could offer bonuses to fellowship roles as it shows a particular heraldic design on it. Or less misfortune dice to manual dexterity tasks while wearing the unique gloves.

 

I will agree that a helmet that adds defence or soak to the whole character would be unbalancing but that's no reason items can't be unique.






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