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Orion-class overpowered?


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#1 van Riebeeck

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 09:47 PM

I always had some thoughts on the Orion class. Note, that it is a magnificent ship, vast, sleek, manoeuvrable, the best weapon fits in the whole game....about the only disadvantage is its dismal armour, that is in fact the same as a basic Jericho. And that is the problem, it is too good. Compare it to the Jericho and the Hazeroth Raider:

Speed: 3/10/10                     Manoeuvrability: -10/+23/+25

Detection: +5/+12/+10          Hull Integrity: 50/32/35

Armour: 12/14/12                Turret Rating: 1/1/1

Space: 45/35/40                  Sp: 20/30/25

Weapon Capacity: 1 Prow, 1Port, 1Starboard/1 Prow, 1 Dorsal/1 Dorsal, 1Keel

So, for 5 SP you get 7 speed, 35 manoeuvrability, 5 detection and the ability to concentrate your two weapon systems anywhere on prow/port/starboard  and even behind you at a sacrifice of 15 hull integrity and 5 space. You would be an abject fool not to go for such a bargain. Why are there any other traders produced if you have this ship? Why even take a raider if you can get this ship with all its extra space? Admitted, getting enough energy for good weapons might be a bother, but with good planning an Orion remains a steal.

And, as said before, that is to me the problem. In a game, advantages and disadvantages should balance each other or the price tag should reflect it. With the Orion-class, this is in my opinion not the case. So I would propose the following:

Remove the keel weapon slot and add 'Handles like a Raider' (in any circumstance where speed or manoeuvrability are concerned, this ship is treated as a raider rather then a transport). Furthermore, I would make it harder to find these ships later in the game if players would wish to purchase them for their fleet. The basic Imperial transport is a stolid, plodding craft, not a sleek clipper. The dramatic reduction in armament makes the Orion more akin to the Viper-class scout sloop: very fast, but at the price of very limited armament.

Alternatively, the ships SP cost could be cranked up, but not sure how far would be logical. As written, it is a ship that can outrun anything human made that could threaten it and has a good chance fighting off anything that can fight it. I am not sure how much it should cost in that case, but 30 SP seems to me a minimum.

So, what are your thoughts on this? Is this to harsh, or am I going in the right direction. The Orion would get less fighting power with 1 Dorsal slot (And the odd sole keel weapon slot would be removed. The fact that amongst all the ships in the Imperium only a transport would be equipped as such always seemed unlogical to me) but would be even better at running away from danger. This seems to me a fair exchange and would still make the Orion a cheap ship and a very good choice for its SP.

 

                                         Friedrich van Riebeeck, Navigator Primus, Heart of the Void



#2 Larkin

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 10:43 PM

 The armour disadvantage is a BIG one. You CANNOT increase it, so either you can hit them hard enough right away to take them out, or you have to run, since you'll likely be taking damage on every hit. It is a very fragile ship.

I agree that it's a wonderful starting ship, lots of space, and very fast and agile. But it's not the end all, be all of light ships.

As to why the other transports are even built, the Orion is a specialty ship, it's designed to run in and out quickly, while dissuading persuit. The others are mass produced sluggish flying boxes.



#3 van Riebeeck

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 11:48 PM

The armour disadvantage is big, but not very big. Considering one can at most add armoured plating for 1 point of armour all- around and armoured prow for another 2 points in the frontal arc to other ships, the armour of other comparable craft will stay low as well, even if they can be uparmoured. Obviously, compared with frigates and cruisers, the difference will really start to tell. But the 'avoid fire with agility while pounding a foe' is a tactic all lighter ships have to follow, but the Orion is the only transport with the agility and speed to pull it off.

As to that rarity, I fully agree. Which is why I mentioned that it should be far harder to for esthablished Rogue Traders to get their hands on an Orion then on, say, a Jericho or Vagabond. And far harder then the 5SP difference might suggest. I would say that an additional two degrees of rarity to the aquisition test would be logical, to reflect that this is a ship that is only constructed in very small numbers, each one avidly sought after. Because the advantages of this ship are enormous if you are trading in a hazardous area. On the normal runs through the Imperium, slow speed in real space is not a big problem for transports, as most of the real time of travel is in each case spent during the warp jumps, which can take months and longer of real time. From entry point to destination in a Vagabond might take a bit longer, but it is so much cheaper. But add dangers to that real space voyage, and a normal transport is so dreadfully handicapped by its slow speed, that convoying becomes vital. And that is where the Orion shines, with its ability to evade most dangers with sheer speed, essentially allowing them to work unescorted in dangerous areas. An enormous operational boon if there is one.

So, from the aquisition and operational view the Orion is probably even more underpriced then it should be at 25 SP.

 

                                                                                                                      FvR



#4 Larkin

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:47 PM

van Riebeeck said:

The armour disadvantage is big, but not very big. Considering one can at most add armoured plating for 1 point of armour all- around and armoured prow for another 2 points in the frontal arc to other ships, the armour of other comparable craft will stay low as well, even if they can be uparmoured. Obviously, compared with frigates and cruisers, the difference will really start to tell. But the 'avoid fire with agility while pounding a foe' is a tactic all lighter ships have to follow, but the Orion is the only transport with the agility and speed to pull it off.

As to that rarity, I fully agree. Which is why I mentioned that it should be far harder to for esthablished Rogue Traders to get their hands on an Orion then on, say, a Jericho or Vagabond. And far harder then the 5SP difference might suggest. I would say that an additional two degrees of rarity to the aquisition test would be logical, to reflect that this is a ship that is only constructed in very small numbers, each one avidly sought after. Because the advantages of this ship are enormous if you are trading in a hazardous area. On the normal runs through the Imperium, slow speed in real space is not a big problem for transports, as most of the real time of travel is in each case spent during the warp jumps, which can take months and longer of real time. From entry point to destination in a Vagabond might take a bit longer, but it is so much cheaper. But add dangers to that real space voyage, and a normal transport is so dreadfully handicapped by its slow speed, that convoying becomes vital. And that is where the Orion shines, with its ability to evade most dangers with sheer speed, essentially allowing them to work unescorted in dangerous areas. An enormous operational boon if there is one.

So, from the aquisition and operational view the Orion is probably even more underpriced then it should be at 25 SP.

 

                                                                                                                      FvR

I would suggest re-reading the Orion, is specifically states that you cannot add components that increase it's armour.



#5 van Riebeeck

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:27 PM

I was not talking about the Orion, but about armouring other comparable craft (like lightly armoured raiders and transports) and specifically using this to illustrate how little difference this makes, adding at most 3/1/1/1 on prow/port/starboard/rear quarters. Just check the second sentence.

                                                                                                FvR



#6 Errant

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 10:14 PM

 The way I figure it, other people in-universe will have noticed how awesome Orions are. Make them rare as gold-plated hen's teeth. Any time they go looking for one, "So sorry milord, the last of the star-clippers was purchased several months ago and, to be honest, there's a fifteen-year waiting list for the next production line."






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