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Questions about Commanders


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#1 Hyrm

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 06:23 PM

1) If my Commander deserts - should I treat him like a defeted Commander (discarding his Commander card to the bottom of the deck)?

2) May I assign one of my heroes to be a new Commander (in case my only commander desrted or was defeated) by using the second part (Supremacy Bonus) of Rally Support Order (spending up to 3 influence to choose a new Commander card)? Should this hero be in a stronghold or anywhere on a map? Or probably the only option to assign a new Commander is waiting till next Summer and choosing a hero in a stronghold to become a new Commander with a free Commander card?

3) If all my units are destroyed in a battle, should my Commander (in this hex, even if he didn't participate with his Commander card's ability) still retreat and be routed?

4) May my Commander move into a previously activated hex during Quest Phase or should he be treated as unit (and hence can't enter such an area)?

5) May my Commander reveal "exploration tokens" as part of his movement (even If I choose to stay in the same hex) during Quest Phase?

 



#2 sigmazero13

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 04:02 AM

 1) I would say the Hero card itself is treated like any other deserting hero (and shuffled back in the deck), but the commander stuff is replaced as if it were defeated.

2) The rules only allow changing commanders at the beginning of Summer (or when a commander is defeated).  I think the only time Rally Support would give you a new commander is if you have lost all your heroes and Rally Support gives you a new one - that one would automatically become the commander.

3) Yes; even if he doesn't use his ability, a Commander in an area with your units is always participating in the battle.

4) The rules don't forbid him from moving INTO an activated hex during the Quest Phase, just not out of one, so in that case, it seems legal to me; it's similar to how Strategize works.  (Note that you CAN move units into an activated hex using Strategize!)

5) Yes, not only can he, but he must if he does the "Movement" option of the Quest phase; the only thing Commanders cannot do in that regard is complete or attempt quests.



#3 Hyrm

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 07:00 PM

Thank you, Sigma!

I agree with almost all your comments besides the part of point 2 about the possibility of assigning a new Commander (if I have no heroes at all and hire a sole hero by Rally Support).

I think (following your initial logic) that after hiring him you should wait in a stronghold for next Summer and then you have an option to promote your only hero to be a commander or just keep him a hero for questing.



#4 sigmazero13

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 07:03 PM

 The reason I would say it's immediate is that the rules imply that having a commander is not optional, and that if you have any heroes, one must always be a commander.

IE, in the section, there is nothing that indicates you can ever choose to NOT have a commander if using that rule.



#5 Hyrm

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 03:29 AM

I still do think that having a commander is a must only in the setup of the game, then I may choose not having it and focus on quests (for some reasons and for some time).

Also if your commander is defeated (e.g. killed on a duel initiated by amother player after your heroes' moves) you will have to wait a whole year to assign a new commander (based on discussed rules section "Choosing a commander").

And moreover, Runewars is a game of multiple options, so I don't think players should be forced to have at anytime 1 commander: what if I don't need it, finding more useful to complete a quest and win a final rune, and hence a game?



#6 sigmazero13

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 05:42 PM

 There is no rule that ever allows you to give up a commander; if you use the option, it's required as part of the game.  The only part that is potentially unclear is what happens when you lose ALL your heroes and then later gain another one.  Based on the text of the rules, even if not explicitly stated, it is strongly implied that when using the Commanders option, one of your heroes MUST always be a commander, and if you don't want to use a commander, you just don't use the optional rule set at all.

I'm fairly certain that's how Corey will rule it.  I could be wrong, but that just doesn't seem to be the intent.



#7 Hyrm

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 09:53 PM

OK, let's just wait for an official FAQ to check the right answer :)



#8 sigmazero13

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 05:06 AM

Hyrm said:

OK, let's just wait for an official FAQ to check the right answer :)

Don't hold your breath on a FAQ.  However, I have been compiling rulings from Corey into a pseudo-official document, and I'll definitely make sure to include his answer on this one :)



#9 Katsue

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 11:33 AM

sigmazero13 said:

 There is no rule that ever allows you to give up a commander; if you use the option, it's required as part of the game.  The only part that is potentially unclear is what happens when you lose ALL your heroes and then later gain another one.  Based on the text of the rules, even if not explicitly stated, it is strongly implied that when using the Commanders option, one of your heroes MUST always be a commander, and if you don't want to use a commander, you just don't use the optional rule set at all.

I agree that you must start with a Commander, and can't ever voluntarily stop having a Commander, but I don't see any obligation to gain a Commander if for whatever reason you don't have one. (a) The sidebar says you may gain a new Commander and (b) the new Commander must be at one of your Strongholds at the start of the Quest Phase, and it's easy to envisage circumstances where that's not possible. (It happened in the first game I played with the expansion, in fact).



#10 sigmazero13

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 05:29 PM

I suppose that's true, but to me it seems to be against the intent of the Commander option.

We'll find out when Corey responds, and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong :D



#11 sigmazero13

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 03:23 PM

 Well, upon reading through the rules again, I'm starting to re-think my stance; because of the "must still be done at the start of the Quest Phase", it does (in retrospect) seem obvious that there CAN be times where you may be commanderless.  Especially since the new Commander must be in a Stronghold at the time!  I don't know how I overlooked that.

Thus, while I have submitted the question to Corey, I'm feeling now that my above comments were wrong, and that you can indeed just go Sans Commander if it is defeated (though you still can't voluntarily just disband your commander; the only way you can go from having one to not having one is if it is defeated somehow).






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