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Dominic's Extra Movement in light of the FAQ


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#1 Terah

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 04:27 AM

Dominic Santiago's Special Ability:

"Move up to 1 additional area when you resolve an Order card..."

To me this means he can move 0-1 areas when he discards an Order card to move/shoot/do whatever the order card says. So if he Active-Reloaded and Advanced he has resolved 2 order cards and could use the ability twice. The FAQ says "No", but IMHO is totally at odds of the wording on Dom's card. Now I don't know what Dom's card is supposed to mean, except it doesn't mean what it says.

A. If Dom Teamworks Marcus does Dom get to use his Special?

B. If Marcus Teamworks Dom does Dom get to use his Special?

C. If Dom Teamworks Marcus who Teamworks Dom back does Dom get to use his Special? How many times?

Before the FAQ my answers would be: A. yes; B. yes; C. yes, twice.

But after the FAQ I don't know how Dominic works. Here are the options I see

I. Maybe Dom's Special really is... "Move up to 1 additional area when you resolve one or more Order cards."

II. Or maybe it really is... "Move up to 1 additional area in your Order Phase."

III. Or maybe the FAQ is wrong and it's what is written on Dom's card.

Opinions from fellow players?



#2 Nephilim

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 02:50 AM

Yes odd they didn't address this in the FAQ too.

There is something in the rules that says: "If the AI card uses the word “you,” it refers to the active player." (3. Locust Activation Step p10)

Agreed not exactely the same but if "you" means "active player", teamwork is a non issue. "Active-Reloaded and Advanced" would then be an exception but it is FAQ'ed.

Any way I would go for: II. Or maybe it really is... "Move up to 1 additional area in your Order Phase."

Edit: or even better: Move up to 1 additional area when you resolve one or more Order cards in your Order Phase.



#3 Terah

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 01:49 AM

Nephilim said:

"If the AI card uses the word “you,” it refers to the active player." (3. Locust Activation Step p10)

Agreed not exactely the same but if "you" means "active player", teamwork is a non issue. "Active-Reloaded and Advanced" would then be an exception but it is FAQ'ed.

Thanks for responding, at least I'm not the only one confused. But I don't think the rules on AI card intereptation help here. Primarily because they are rules about one part, not all parts. Secondly, really that's not the intent because look what happens if you DO use this substitution. If "active player" is substituted for "you" on Dom's Special ability suddenly he can move in any and all COG's Order steps.

Nephilim said:

Any way I would go for: II. Or maybe it really is... "Move up to 1 additional area in your Order Phase."

Edit: or even better: Move up to 1 additional area when you resolve one or more Order cards in your Order Phase.

Currently I think I'll go with option III and just ignore the FAQ in this instance. Dom's got a simply worded Special. The FAQ wants to over-rule it, but hasn't changed the wording on the card. And really it shouldn't change the wording (or meaning) without a very good reason. There is no such reason.



#4 Nephilim

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:57 PM

Terah said:

Thanks for responding, at least I'm not the only one confused. But I don't think the rules on AI card intereptation help here. Primarily because they are rules about one part, not all parts. Secondly, really that's not the intent because look what happens if you DO use this substitution. If "active player" is substituted for "you" on Dom's Special ability suddenly he can move in any and all COG's Order steps.

That is not wat I ment: I said IF "you" means "active player" (not the other way around) like in the case of the AI card mentioned in the rules.
If the one player plays teamwork in his turn, he still IS the active player, even if he lets Dom play an order card. Dom's ability says "you", and since he isn't the active player, there is no issue.

The only exception is the "Active-Reloaded and Advanced" combo but it is FAQ-ed he can only play one



#5 Terah

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 06:38 PM

I think I understood you. I think you misunderstood me. :)

To be clear - I was explaining that "you" on Dom's special does not mean "the active player". Not just about Teamwork, but in general.

Here's what Dom's Special would mean if 'you' did mean 'the active player' (literal text substitution): "Move up to 1 additional area when the active player resolves an Order card..." It doesn't mean this, but if it did Dom could use it on Marcus' turn... or maybe Marcus could use Dom's ability on Marcus' turn? Madness is ensuing.

Even worse. Cole's, Baird's and Marcus' Specials also use "you" (Marcus actually uses "your"). If "you" on COG Special Abilities means "the active player" then they all become very weird, almost impossible to understand.



#6 Steve-O

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:11 AM

I don't own this game yet, however, as a co-op game I would be inclined to apply my standard co-op rule of thumb (which has since been dubbed "Arkham's Razor" in the AH forums:)

"When in doubt, always rule against the human players."  In other words, if you aren't sure how a given situation should work, always play it in the harshest way for the actual human players.

The reason I espouse this rule of thumb at every turn for co-op games is simple: The game never learns, never adapts, never gets harder to beat.  Humans do.  Co-op games are generally only entertaining as long as they are at least somewhat difficult to beat - once the challenge is gone, it's just not the same.  Therefore, you should always rule in the game's favour if you aren't sure what to do.  Keeps the game alive and kicking for a longer period of time.



#7 LETE

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:51 PM

HI:

 

This is the way I play Dominic S:

I only "activate" his Special Ability when I actually make use of an Order card, not just discard it to move up to 2 spaces or make 1 attack (for instance).  If I have to discard a card, usually to activate an equipment area, Dom's Ability doesn't trigger.  He wasn't greased lighting in the game...

 

 

 

HtH!



#8 Terah

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 01:49 PM

Steve-O: My problem is not that there was doubt, but that the FAQ ruled in a way contrary to Dom's card. Either I invent new rules to be consistent with the FAQ or play by the components as written. It really sucks if I have to tell a new player their card text is wrong.

LETE: You raise a valid but totally different issue regarding Dom's ability. Probably best to leave that for another thread.

 



#9 Nephilim

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 10:57 PM

Terah said:

I think I understood you. I think you misunderstood me. :)

Probably goes both ways But I have to agree I didn't express my statement very well (not native English speaker).
To be clear: I was thinking like "You" only triggers when "You" is the "active player", not when someone else is the active player. (this is different than replacing "you" with "active player")

Terah said:

To be clear - I was explaining that "you" on Dom's special does not mean "the active player". Not just about Teamwork, but in general.

Here's what Dom's Special would mean if 'you' did mean 'the active player' (literal text substitution): "Move up to 1 additional area when the active player resolves an Order card..." It doesn't mean this, but if it did Dom could use it on Marcus' turn... or maybe Marcus could use Dom's ability on Marcus' turn? Madness is ensuing.

Even worse. Cole's, Baird's and Marcus' Specials also use "you" (Marcus actually uses "your"). If "you" on COG Special Abilities means "the active player" then they all become very weird, almost impossible to understand.

I agree with you that's not what it should be!

Terah said:

Steve-O: My problem is not that there was doubt, but that the FAQ ruled in a way contrary to Dom's card. Either I invent new rules to be consistent with the FAQ or play by the components as written. It really sucks if I have to tell a new player their card text is wrong.

That's very true... The FAQ really made an exception there. I still don't know why, It's not so a "broken" combo - imho - to let Dom move twice in that situation.



#10 Steve-O

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 02:40 AM

Terah said:

Steve-O: My problem is not that there was doubt, but that the FAQ ruled in a way contrary to Dom's card. Either I invent new rules to be consistent with the FAQ or play by the components as written. It really sucks if I have to tell a new player their card text is wrong.

Yeah, that's not uncommon for FFG's FAQs.  It's also not uncommon for the answer to change in later FAQ publications.



#11 Advosan

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:41 AM

It never troubled me, I have always played it as the FAQ suggested. When resolving Active Reload, the "second" order card is an order card within an order card, so when resolving it, Dom is still actually resolving the Active Reload order card. Active Reload struck me as a wildcard that has no "order" of its own, but can incorporate any other order card the player wishes to play. So, one Order Phase= one extra move for Dom. 






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