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A word of warning to the makers of version 2


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#1 jibbyjackjoe

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 04:48 PM

Hello all.  Long time lurker, yada yada...you know how that goes.

I recently discovered that Descent v2 will be coming out in the near future.  I am an avid descent fan: the mere thought of it makes we want to break out my $200 + worth of descent  and play it...like...right now.  I have purchased and casted molds for a very sexy looking board and every once in a while I get out my paint and, whenever my wife allows it, go to town on our kitchen table and paint for days on end.

I'm an extremely happy that you all there are redoing the game to A) make it shorter on us older folks that just cannot get a group of people together for 4+ hours and B) are going to take a serious look at the rules this time (I'm not joking. don't drop the ball on this one.  I play Magic: the Gathering and it has so many rules.  You need to think about EVERY possible interaction).

Be advised, however, you're moving into a territory that may turn me off from the game.  Specifically, the conversion kit.

As far as I can tell, the conversion kit will allow me to purchase a way for my old heroes and monsters to come into the new 2.0 world.  I think this is great!  If I feel like I can afford to upgrade, this will be a huge boon.

The problem I'm going to have, and I'm sure other veterans will also, is if you use ANY of these heroes and monsters again down the road. If we purchase the conversion kit and move into 2.0, and then you decide that the campaigns need spiders, and then you make us repurchase spiders (a spider that looks slightly different is still a spider) after first purchasing the V1.0, and then purchasing the conversion kit...I'm sure you can see the slippery slope from where you're sitting.

If you do decide to do this, you will lose a lot of credibility in my eyes.  You will come off as money hungry and I will not buy any more fantasy flight games products for a long time, if ever.  I visit your booth at gen con and spend quite a bit each year...you folks there are always a joy to talk to as I can tell you really do care about your products, as well as we do :)

The conversion kit is going to be a fantastic way to jump start us into 2.0, but don't even think about ever including any of the monsters in any descent game here on in that can be brought over with the conversion kit.  Us veterans don't need spiders - we've already spent hundreds of dollars, and $X on the conversion kit.  And if you do, you may want to make it so that booster packs come with your expansions: those with old monsters, and those without.



#2 Scy800

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 06:37 PM

 I second your opinion completely! 

I also hope FFG will include some way to incorporate the old monsters in the new quests. Maybe they could do that with a monster point system or something like that, or spawn cards. I would be disappointed if the conversion kit is only for the homebrews.



#3 Jake yet again

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 12:27 AM

My impression - and hopefully FFG can correct any misunderstandings that I have - is that the conversion kit contains cards fro all the new stats for monsters treasures, etc. but does not contain new figures. Hence new players can buy version 2.0 from the off, whereas us old timers get a cheaper box cos we only need the new cards and dice.


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#4 jibbyjackjoe

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 03:40 AM

Jake yet again said:

My impression - and hopefully FFG can correct any misunderstandings that I have - is that the conversion kit contains cards fro all the new stats for monsters treasures, etc. but does not contain new figures. Hence new players can buy version 2.0 from the off, whereas us old timers get a cheaper box cos we only need the new cards and dice.

I think the conversion kit lets you use the old figures you have (heroes and monsters) in the new version 2.0 setting.  Which, logically speaking, means that there are only new heroes and monsters in the first 2.0 version.

My fear is that at some point down the road, they're going to  have a need to reuse an old monster, lets say the Beastmen.  If they do, they'll remake the figures and include it, along with the cost of them, in the expansion.  I don't need Beastmen, as I am a veteran who bought the conversion kit.  I fear that I may be SOL, however, since I seriously doubt they'll adopt a model in which bits and bops of the expansion are all sold separately. 



#5 Steve-O

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 12:50 PM

Jake yet again said:

 

My impression - and hopefully FFG can correct any misunderstandings that I have - is that the conversion kit contains cards fro all the new stats for monsters treasures, etc. but does not contain new figures. Hence new players can buy version 2.0 from the off, whereas us old timers get a cheaper box cos we only need the new cards and dice.

 

 

No, that's not correct.

The conversion kit has 2e stat cards for all the figures from 1e (heroes, monsters and possibly LTs.) It does not provide any kind of conversion for anything else. No cards, no tokens, etc.  FFG has assured us that the 2e base box will not contain any "repeats," but the future integrity of expansions remains to be seen, of course.

jibbyjackjoe said:

 

My fear is that at some point down the road, they're going to  have a need to reuse an old monster, lets say the Beastmen.  If they do, they'll remake the figures and include it, along with the cost of them, in the expansion.  I don't need Beastmen, as I am a veteran who bought the conversion kit.  I fear that I may be SOL, however, since I seriously doubt they'll adopt a model in which bits and bops of the expansion are all sold separately. 

 

I can't entirely refute the idea that FFG might someday try to "recycle" old models into a new 2e expansion, but of course, it goes without saying that you don't need to buy it if you don't think it's worthwhile.

That said, there are a lot of monsters in the Terrinoth setting that have yet to make an appearance in Descent, so it's not like they're running on fumes for ideas (at least, not right now.)  From Runewars there's flesh tearers, berserkers, dark knights, pegasi (with or without riders), as well as all the new things they're putting out in Banners of War.  And, of course, Runebound and its many expansions had more unique monster ideas than you can shake a stick at, just waiting to be converted from card to plastic.

As far as parts go, there was at least one online store that had started selling 1e in bits before 2e was announced.  Hopefully that guy will keep up the good idea with 2e boxes and you may yet be able to circumvent such a happenstance after all.  Hopefully it will be a long time off, though, if it does happen.



#6 jibbyjackjoe

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 01:11 AM

Steve-O said:

As far as parts go, there was at least one online store that had started selling 1e in bits before 2e was announced.  Hopefully that guy will keep up the good idea with 2e boxes and you may yet be able to circumvent such a happenstance after all.  Hopefully it will be a long time off, though, if it does happen.

 

I'd like to see that guys store!  Can you message me with info?  Theres a couple of things I'd like to get...



#7 Steve-O

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 05:06 AM

jibbyjackjoe said:

Steve-O said:

 

As far as parts go, there was at least one online store that had started selling 1e in bits before 2e was announced.  Hopefully that guy will keep up the good idea with 2e boxes and you may yet be able to circumvent such a happenstance after all.  Hopefully it will be a long time off, though, if it does happen.

 

 

 

I'd like to see that guys store!  Can you message me with info?  Theres a couple of things I'd like to get...

I forget the name of it.  Auggie's something-or-other.  Google Auggie + Descent and see what turns up.



#8 Dark Young

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 03:46 AM

jibbyjackjoe said:

Steve-O said:

 

As far as parts go, there was at least one online store that had started selling 1e in bits before 2e was announced.  Hopefully that guy will keep up the good idea with 2e boxes and you may yet be able to circumvent such a happenstance after all.  Hopefully it will be a long time off, though, if it does happen.

 

 

 

I'd like to see that guys store!  Can you message me with info?  Theres a couple of things I'd like to get...

auggiesgamesonline.3dcartstores.com/Descent-_c_90.html



#9 Sausageman

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 01:27 AM

Dark Young said:

jibbyjackjoe said:

 

Steve-O said:

 

As far as parts go, there was at least one online store that had started selling 1e in bits before 2e was announced.  Hopefully that guy will keep up the good idea with 2e boxes and you may yet be able to circumvent such a happenstance after all.  Hopefully it will be a long time off, though, if it does happen.

 

 

 

I'd like to see that guys store!  Can you message me with info?  Theres a couple of things I'd like to get...

 

 

auggiesgamesonline.3dcartstores.com/Descent-_c_90.html

Holy crap, thats AWESOME.  Time to get some more conquest and a new set of order tokens, as some were previously water damaged...  :)



#10 Vonpenguin

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 06:38 PM

Personally I kind of hope they do rerelease some of the older monsters and such. My copy of first edition descent arrived at my house on literally the day second edition was announced. After deciding that the game was worth playing my gaming group began a frantic search for the expansions, no well of darkness, no road to legend. And I was so looking forward to kobolds, sigh.



#11 Frog

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 02:29 AM

jibbyjackjoe said:

The problem I'm going to have, and I'm sure other veterans will also, is if you use ANY of these heroes and monsters again down the road. If we purchase the conversion kit and move into 2.0, and then you decide that the campaigns need spiders, and then you make us repurchase spiders (a spider that looks slightly different is still a spider) after first purchasing the V1.0, and then purchasing the conversion kit...I'm sure you can see the slippery slope from where you're sitting.

 

Dear FFG, this is a complete load of selfish nonsense.

Re-use any monsters and heroes you want...but make new molds for them if you do.

You never promised anyone you would never use any of your older material in this 2nd edition.  You merely stated that the conversion kit is an option to immediately bring in the monsters and heroes of 1st Edition.

Do NOT listen to selfish and foolish and restraining ideas like this.  You owe these folks nothing.  They have a complete game.  A complete game that is now out of print.  In 2nd Edition...ANYTHING goes.  In any other 2nd edition, material is re-used from the 1st edition.

 

 



#12 AdamX

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:30 AM

I don't agree with the point of the original post. It seems that FFG is already doing a lot to appease owners of v1. First, they are saying there is no overlap between the v2 base game and the old content. Second, they are providing a conversion kit to bring over all your old minis. These seem to be thoughtful considerations made by FFG.

I just discovered the game, and I was looking to buy it until I figured out that it was out of print and v2 is coming out. So I will wait for v2.

New players should not be limited in what they can see in future expansions.



#13 Steve-O

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 12:46 PM

AdamX said:

 

New players should not be limited in what they can see in future expansions.

 

 

I can see both sides of the arguement, really.

On the one hand, a new player to 2e might feel gypped if he hears that FFG will NEVER release the old 1e monsters again (with or without new molds.)

On the other hand, a long-time 1e player who took the plunge and upgraded to 2e might rightly feel gypped if he spends an extra ~$30 on the conversion kit only to see the same old monsters being released with 2e stats as part and parcel of the 2e expansions.

There isn't really an answer that's fair to all concerned.  I agree that FFG is being very considerate to existing customers by giving them an easy way to include their old 1e figures in the 2e game.  Personally, I wouldn't loose too much sleep over seeing some variants of 1e monsters in a later 2e Ex-Pack, but I still wouldn't want to see the same old figs again.

Stone Giants as a variant of regular giants would be fine by me (especially if there's more than two of them in the expansion.)  Seeing the same old giant figs would be a bit of a burn.

Personally, I'd prefer they focus on new monsters at least for the first few expansions.  Lord knows there's plenty to choose from in the larger Runebound universe, so the selection of baddies for a new 2e player to collect and use would hardly be "limited" even if the 1e monsters don't reappear for a good long while.

Besides, as has been mentioned already, there's at least one online store selling 1e for bits.  New players can get the old figs without needing to buy the whole box (for the time being anyway) and if this guy keeps up the same thing in 2e, old players will be able to poach whatever figures they want for 1e reverse engineering projects.






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