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Operation Cerberus Rulebook


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#1 Loophole Master

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 02:55 AM

The Cerberus rulebook is finally online, with lots of goodies. Namely some allied fluff and a nice war chronology, rules for the heavy command squads, heavy walkers and multi-level buildings!

- Very nice that the NCO squads have different abilities form the normal command squads. Smoke grenades are finally introduced. Ammo Dump skill is a godsend for the Steel Rain. Stimulant Kit is CRAZY! Basically the squad uses up all actions for this round and the next, all at once. Imagine heavy rangers moving 8 spaces in one go! Interesting that none of the NCO skills requires a dice roll. Unlike the normal Command Squads, you know exactly what you'll get out of this guys.

- Heavy walkers are lumbering beasts, as they should be. They need to perform MOVE+MOVE in order to fully deploy onto the board, and moving around cluttered terrain will be a hassle. Attack LOS is thankfully quite simple.

- On 3D structures. A pity jumping units cannot land on the roof, it would make perfect sense for them to do so. LOS will probably be a bit tricky at first, specially withe the difference in heights, but it seems they kept the rules nice and simple. Surely sometimes it won't make a lot of sense, but that's something you have to accept in the name of streamlined rules. I wonder if the "directly behind" rule for blocking LOS applies if the target is standing diagonally to the blocking element.



#2 Wombattangofoxtrot

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 06:05 AM

Loophole Master said:

- On 3D structures. A pity jumping units cannot land on the roof, it would make perfect sense for them to do so. LOS will probably be a bit tricky at first, specially withe the difference in heights, but it seems they kept the rules nice and simple. Surely sometimes it won't make a lot of sense, but that's something you have to accept in the name of streamlined rules. I wonder if the "directly behind" rule for blocking LOS applies if the target is standing diagonally to the blocking element.

They've stuck to the "first diagonal counts as one space" rule up to this point, so I hope they continue to do so and call it "blocking".  IMO, streamlined rules are consistent rules. =)



#3 Loophole Master

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 06:39 AM

Speaking of diagonals. The rules say that climbing a floor diagonally costs 1 move point. But if you climb two floors diagonally, does the 2nd diagonal move cost 2 move points, for a total of 3?

And where the hell does reactive fire take place against a unit who's drugged and performing 4 consecutive actions?! My guess would be that it's after the 2nd action. So:

MOVE+MOVE >Reactive Fire< Whatever (MOVE+MOVE, MOVE+ATTACK, ATTACK+MOVE, Sustained Fire)

MOVE+ATTACK >Reactive Fire< Whatever

ATTACK+MOVE >Reactive Fire< Whatever

Sustained Fire >Reactive Fire< Whatever (unless this is another Sustained Fire, in which case no Reactive Fire is possible).

MOVE+Sustained Fire >Reactive Fire< Either MOVE or ATTACK

ATTACK+Sustained Fire >Reactive Fire< Either MOVE or ATTACK

 

Oh boy, and what about a unit with Charge? My take:

MOVE+MOVE >Reactive Fire< Charge+Two more actions (like above, but also MOVE+MOVE+Charge)

ATTACK+MOVE >Reactive Fire< MOVE+Charge+Either MOVE or ATTACK

This is getting really complicated, where does Fast come in into all this?

 

A squad of drugged apes will be quite fearsome, with 4 actions, they can perform two Charges! They can move 2 squares, attack a unit, then move 3 squares and attack another!



#4 Wombattangofoxtrot

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 07:12 AM

I worry about The Hammers with Ozz177.  Ozz lights off Heroic Attack, then they move 2 and attack, move 2 and attack.  They are invulnerable to all cc strikebacks and cannot be damaged for the rest of the turn when they are vulnerable. 



#5 Loophole Master

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 07:20 AM

And another thing. On the following round, when the drugged unit spends both its actions just to get back on their feet, and would then be at their most vulnerable, can they still use Skills that don't require an action? Cause then Ozz would be better off saving that Heroic Attack for the subsequent round, since it's likely he managed to create a fairly safe zone around him to keep him for that 1st round.



#6 Wombattangofoxtrot

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 07:28 AM

For reactive fire, I personally think that a reactive fire check would be made after every move action, as the reactive fire rules state that you can interrupt an "action" (pg. 16).  The two (perhaps three with fast) exceptions to this would be Attack+Move, as it is specifically called out that your reactive fire check happens before the movement, and if a unit is using the skill, charge. 

For me, I interpret the note on "fast" (pg. 17) to mean that the check goes off after a move action (move+fast) that uses fast, not the entire movement for the turn (move+fast+move).  By the exact wording of the rule about "fast" on page 17, I could be interpreting this incorrectly (considered as a charge), but I believe that making yet another exception to this rule and treating it as a charge makes these rules even MORE "bulky".



#7 Wombattangofoxtrot

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 07:38 AM

According to the rules on pg. 20, it states that skills do not count against the two actions allowed for a round unless that skill is a [SKILL], so I believe that he could do that. 

As for the timing of Heroic, it's all about timing and preference.  If I use the "Crazy Ozz" maneuver as my first action for the turn, I guarantee that I will be able to throw all my dice for the entire turn (which would be good if I have to take out Gorillas or Zombies) and then my drugged squad sits wherever I ended and spends the rest of the turn as a nice, invulnerable roadblock. If you use the "Crazy Ozz" maneuver as the last action for the turn when you're going after dudes who are unlikely to hurt armor 3, then I can see doing it at the beginning of the next turn.  Whichever choice floats your boat, this combo is dangerous.



#8 Gimp

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 07:41 AM

I'd expect the Reactive Fire rules to stay focused on the first action, with only the noted exceptions currently in place being in force. 

With no exception noted for climbing diagonals, and them being noted as like normal movement, I would expect the second diagonal climb to cost two movement.

I actually like infantry can climb on a roof, but not jump to the roof.  Climbing you can feel where you're going, but an armored trooper is going to be pretty hard on a lot of roofs if they simply land on them.  If they land like a paratrooper instead of a bird, that armor and gear is going to make that roof very sad.  Since they can't jump up through a upper floor window to enter a building, I'd say they are not the most accurate movement enhancers around.

I could picture special scenario buildings where jump troops could land on the roof, but the average roof is not designed to take heavy impacts.



#9 Loophole Master

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 07:47 AM

Yeah, I guess the simplest way to deal with Reactive Fire and drugged units is to just consider the first two actions, like normal. The final couple of actions are extraordinary feats that leave the opponent completely off guard.

I agree that a case could be made for rocket pack troopers not being quite super-hero graceful on their short flights. Maybe more like the Mk1 Iron Man crashing all over the place.



#10 Gimp

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 08:06 AM

Loophole Master said:

I agree that a case could be made for rocket pack troopers not being quite super-hero graceful on their short flights. Maybe more like the Mk1 Iron Man crashing all over the place.

Or show your age and imagine them like The Greatest American Hero...



#11 Loophole Master

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 03:15 PM

Wow, imagine a squad of drugged Zombies with their Fast skill, attached to Grenadier X using his Assault. Move 2 squares, attack dealing 24/1, move another 3 squares, attack again... Or just move right through 9 squares! They'll end up falling off the board.

As I understand it, it is possible for the medic to inject the stimulant on a squad that's already been activated, so that it will only kick in the next time it's activated (either next round, or if Get Moving gets used on them). This could be an interesting 1st round strategy depending on the mission. Would completely break some of the earlier scenarios from Blue Thunder and Cyclone.

These NCO squads will just have to be used as more forward units, though, otherwise you'll hardly get any use out of them. I'm really happy they are not just heavily armored versions of the normal CS, their abilities make them play a completely different role in the game.



#12 Loophole Master

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 03:45 AM

I keep thinking up the most terrifying scenarios with this stimulant shot. Imagine Sigrid with the Laser Grenadiers being drugged. She can use her Berserk skill so that every attack is effectively a sustained attack, so if they keep alternating between different targets, they can make four sustained attacks in a single round!



#13 felkor

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 04:53 AM

Loophole Master said:

I keep thinking up the most terrifying scenarios with this stimulant shot. Imagine Sigrid with the Laser Grenadiers being drugged. She can use her Berserk skill so that every attack is effectively a sustained attack, so if they keep alternating between different targets, they can make four sustained attacks in a single round!

 

These guys were low on my wishlist, then high when I saw how different they were from the old ones, but now you're making me think about lowering them again... they sound perhaps a bit too unbalancing in certain situations.



#14 Loophole Master

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 05:02 AM

I don't think it's too unbalancing, because these abilities can only be used once per match. Also, in order to really take advantage of a stim shot, the drugged squad best be already close to the enemy, which means the NCO squad must also be on the frontlines, which gives the opponent the opportunity of killing the medic before he can do anything. As a 3-men armor 3 squad with no Damage Resilience and no possibility of attaching a hero, the NCO squad is pretty vulnerable.



#15 arkangl

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 05:27 AM

"I keep thinking up the most terrifying scenarios with this stimulant shot. Imagine Sigrid with the Laser Grenadiers being drugged. She can use her Berserk skill so that every attack is effectively a sustained attack, so if they keep alternating between different targets, they can make four sustained attacks in a single round!"- Loophole Master

You actually couldn't do that Loop. It says on page 20: "The unit may reroll all blank results once for each weapon line." This means berserk would only work for the first shooting. Which you reroll using the berserk. Since you rerolled then no other shooting would have berserk because it works once per game and per shoot not per turn. Now you could use berserk first time, sustain the second one and shoot at another unit 3rd time but without rerolls. Thats still pretty nasty. Also could you make a fellow command squad super nasty if you think about it they could move, shoot, order, and artillery strike all in one turn.



#16 Loophole Master

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 05:36 AM

True, I thought the wording was something like "reroll once per attack", but the way it is written it doesn't really allow berserk to affect several attacks in the same round. That is a good thing, it makes a lot more sense for Berserk to only affect a single attack.

And I believe the rules don't allow a command squad to use its abilities on another command squad. And even if they could, a command squad can only ever use (or try to use) a single ability per turn, no matter how many actions they have.



#17 Gimp

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 05:45 AM

I think my favorite dream attack for Stimulant Kit would be Heavy Flak Grenadiers with Lara.  It would allow a Sustained Attack, a reload, and a normal attack.  Against a unit that hasn't moved yet, that's 28 dice for each attack against Armor 2, and 18 dice against Armor 3.  It can break down to 18+10 and 12+6 for four attacks with good probabilities of success.

Another balancing side for the Zombies would be that they are forced to make simultaneous close combat attacks against each opponent.  Each attack they make holds the probability they will be taking casualties and reducing their effectiveness.  Grenadier-X can absorb some of them, but only so many.  They would be great, however,  if someone left vehicles exposed, since they couldn't fight back.



#18 Loophole Master

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 06:01 AM

Ouch, Lara and Flak against a non-moving target is just evil!

Then again the Burst Weapon rule is the one I dislike the most in the game. It just seems so random...



#19 Gimp

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 09:38 AM

Loophole Master said:

Ouch, Lara and Flak against a non-moving target is just evil!

Then again the Burst Weapon rule is the one I dislike the most in the game. It just seems so random...

High rate of fire weapons are very hard to track on a moving target due to recoil, so I'd guess they figure if a Burst Weapon gets a chance to fire at a stationary target, they're a very happy weapon crew.  Just brace to one small area instead of tracking, and hose to your heart's content...



#20 felkor

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:32 PM

So with these buildings - can artillery hit someone on the roof top?  They are technically "in" the structure, but it doesn't make any sense to me that artillery couldn't hit them.






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