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We Have Consensus on Black Crusade Core/Combat, But Still No Psionics for Dark Heresy


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#1 furashgf

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 08:02 AM

Dark Heresy was the 1st game in the W40K series they came out with, so it's no surprise that their rules have continued to improve and become more elegant. There seems to be a general consensus that the best set of core mechanic/combat rules/tests is in Black Crusade. However, I still don't know if there's an equivalent for psychic powers for Dark Heresy. There are other versions of Psionics in Rogue Trader, etc. Is there such a thing?



#2 DJSunhammer

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 05:46 PM

As far as I know none of the DH powers have been converted to the BC system.



#3 Noctus

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 04:07 AM

I concure that the general rules evolved nicely to what is now written in Black Crusade.

 

@ Psy Powers

I see the different ways of psykering in DH/RT/DW/BC as different "schools" of how to make use of the warp. So that differently schooled Psykers use differing systems on how to evoke their powers. I find it okay that an imperial Sanctioned Psyker, an Eldar Farseer, a Space Marine Librarian and a Chaos Sorcerer use different mechanis how to use their powers.

From the fluff side i always think of how the Eldar always complai that the human psykers are all so unrefined and crude when psykering, even when their raw power can sometimes be as big as theirs.



#4 S3Cs4uN 8

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 06:04 PM

 I believe there is a table or test box thing in the Black Crusade book for converting Dark Heresies Psychic powers into the Black Crusade format



#5 Santiago

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:38 PM

 http://www.n01h3r3.c...lore wip-v1.pdf



#6 Dabat

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 07:00 AM

I may very well be in the minority here, but I like the psychic powers system from Dark Heresy better than the system from RT onward. Psychic powers are powerful, yes, but they are also corrupting and extraordinarily dangerous to use. A danger is totally mitigated in the later systems. The DH system prevented psykers from being shoehorned into simple spell monkeys like the 'spell-casters' are in so many other systems. Something I enjoyed playing, and something I enjoyed running. far more than "Well, if I don't push I can use my powers all day."



#7 Dread Moores

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 02:16 PM

 Setting aside the personal preference on systems, using BC non-Chaos psychic powers covers three of the branches/schools of psychic ability as found in DH (telepathy, telekinesis, and divination). It's not too bad to use those as examples to convert the rest (as well as some of the Chaos-based ones as examples, particularly for some of the biomancy powers). I've converted most of them over for my own campaign.



#8 Darth Smeg

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:08 AM

Dabat said:

I may very well be in the minority here, but I like the psychic powers system from Dark Heresy better than the system from RT onward. Psychic powers are powerful, yes, but they are also corrupting and extraordinarily dangerous to use. A danger is totally mitigated in the later systems. The DH system prevented psykers from being shoehorned into simple spell monkeys like the 'spell-casters' are in so many other systems. Something I enjoyed playing, and something I enjoyed running. far more than "Well, if I don't push I can use my powers all day."

Well, Dark Heresy allows for Fettered/Push as well, starting with Ascension. You can use Black Crusades rules, but still limit your Psykers to Unfettered use of the powers. 

That is going to be my approach. Just because something is possible for a suitably trained person to do, does not mean that anyone can do it. You still need the appropriate Skills/Talents/Traits, and the Imperial Psykers don't.

However, the new rules are still kinder to the Psyker, I agree. The chance of phenomena are reduced to a flat 10%, so there is no danger in using the increased power from higher psy-ratings.

 


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My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#9 Meljinx

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 03:52 PM

 Well one thing we noticed when running my DH campaign w/ BC combat rules is that.. while full auto is no longer king.. accurate basic weapons however are.. it really swung the fulcrum the other way.  After a discussion between one player the others had to leave earlier I may stick w/ BC combat and DH psychic powers.  The only change being accurate basic weapons only get the additional d10 after a full turn of aiming.

Reason is this BC as it is.. a Long Las 1d10+3 Pen 1.. vs Heavy Stubber 1d10+5 Pen 3

Range.. 50m BS 40

Long Las

Half Action Aim +10, Short Range +10, Accurate +10, Single Shot +10.

Heavy Stubber Short Range +10, Full Auto -10

If a 40 is rolled in for both weapons.. heavy stubber would do 1d10+5..

Long Las Would be doing 3d10+3.. let alone variable setting.  

 

Currently it seems that most FA weapons are only good for Suppressing Fire and can't hit the broad side of a barn.  However they become on more equal footing when the an accurate weapons additional d10's require a full round of aiming.. which you can also do w/ the FA weapons and they come more closer to each other.

 The other thought was to make SA +20, FA+10 and keep the accurate basic weapons as is for now.. 

 

However psychic powers I use the rules from Ascension for psykers.



#10 Alox

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:15 AM

 My estimate is that in Only War you are going to see psy powers from the original DH done in the new way.

 



#11 Darth Smeg

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:38 AM

The problem with Accurate weapons is that they are completely negated with a simple success on a Dodge test. It''s an all-or-nothing deal, whereas high RoF weapons can still score a few hits even if the target manages a Dodge.


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My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#12 DJSunhammer

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:56 AM

Dabat said:

 

I may very well be in the minority here, but I like the psychic powers system from Dark Heresy better than the system from RT onward. Psychic powers are powerful, yes, but they are also corrupting and extraordinarily dangerous to use. A danger is totally mitigated in the later systems. The DH system prevented psykers from being shoehorned into simple spell monkeys like the 'spell-casters' are in so many other systems. Something I enjoyed playing, and something I enjoyed running. far more than "Well, if I don't push I can use my powers all day."

 

 

The only problem I have with the DH psychic power system is that it is counter intuitive. As a character gets stronger they have a higher chance of maiming or killing themselves [or others], literally scaling backwards. It should be that as a character gets stronger, they have more control and are less likely to murder something on accident.

Also you need an epic crap-ton of dice and all of their little associated annoyances. It takes a year for most people to roll dice with a high power character and then add them all up.



#13 Darth Smeg

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:53 PM

Which is why I wrote this handy little web tool to help rolling all them psy-dice and check for Phenomena.

A more powerful Psyker will grab Favoured by the Warp, which greatly helps him limit the collateral damage caused by Phenomena (drops chances of a Peril from 25% to about 6% if/when you roll a phenomena), and with powerwells, discipline focus and a higher WP, they can also focus powers using less dice than a less experienced Psyker could.


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My House Rules for using Only War (and more) for Dark Heresy games


#14 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 02:06 AM

The DW/RT system is incompatible with Dark Heresy because of the existence of Minor Psycgic Powers in the latter, which a halfway competent character will be able to use Unfettered at all times, thereby breaking the game when Distort Vision and Weapon Jinx are used constantly without fear of repercussion. DW and RT psykers have narrow focus and do not have the potential to be jack-of-all-trades characters. Leaving to one side that in DH, as opposed to DW and RT, constant threat of corruption and unreliability are major themes.

BTW you do in fact obtain greater control and safety as you grow more powerful. That is not done by increasing Psy Rating, but by increasing Willpower and Invocation, or by gaining Power Well, Discipline Focus and/or Mastery, and/or Favoured by the Warp. Psy Rating increases raw psychic power, not control.



#15 nethru

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 05:31 AM

 If you look at the excerpt for the new BC book coming out the thousand sons sorcerer has biomancy, pyromany and other disciplines listed as options for powers to choose from so i'm guessing that new book will have the missing discipline powers.



#16 Denmar1701

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 05:31 PM

Dabat said:

I may very well be in the minority here, but I like the psychic powers system from Dark Heresy better than the system from RT onward. Psychic powers are powerful, yes, but they are also corrupting and extraordinarily dangerous to use. A danger is totally mitigated in the later systems. The DH system prevented psykers from being shoehorned into simple spell monkeys like the 'spell-casters' are in so many other systems. Something I enjoyed playing, and something I enjoyed running. far more than "Well, if I don't push I can use my powers all day."

I agree with you.

I am currently playing in a game where the GM is running DH, but using the RT system for activating powers… he thinks that the RT system tends to create less issues for warp incursions but the Psyker player, who is used to running one in my game tends to push all the time, in order to get his powers to even work in the first place. I like how the powers scale when a Psyker gets to Ascension, although a lot of the Disciplines and Ascended powers need work, as some discipline are more powerful than the Ascended powers.


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