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#1 Fgdsfg

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 05:24 AM

Forget Chain Swords. Behold!

Behold!

The Drill Rapier!


Stat it.


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#2 Objulen

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 07:09 PM

 +2 Armor Pen, loses the primitive quality.

 

That's a great idea for spears too ;)



#3 Fgdsfg

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 10:47 PM

Objulen said:

 

 +2 Armor Pen, loses the primitive quality.

 That's a great idea for spears too ;)

 

I was actually trying to find the stats for a regular Rapier before I attempted to stat it myself, but unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be any.

 


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Unified WH40kRP Ruleset Homebrew - Personal Notes
Talking Necrons. Dreadknights. Centurion Armour. Sororitas-murdering Grey Knights.
These things are dumb and do not exist. This is non-negotiable and undebatable.


#4 BangBangTequila

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 06:44 AM

...Sword..? You could use a Sabre, which could, technically, be a form of rapier, but that's merely arguing semantics. I'd use the stats for a chainsword, but remove Balanced and add +1 or +2 Pen.



#5 Objulen

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 04:34 PM

Fgdsfg said:

 

Objulen said:

 

 +2 Armor Pen, loses the primitive quality.

 That's a great idea for spears too ;)

 

I was actually trying to find the stats for a regular Rapier before I attempted to stat it myself, but unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be any.

 

 

 

 

There's not, but you can look at some of the Xenos or specialty weapons from the various books on the Ecclesiarchy, etc. At the end of the day, though, you're only going to have so many different stats that you can use for similar weapons. 

One way to handle, it, though is to emphasize the higher reliance on speed instead of strength. Here's an idea to help make it mechanically different from every other sword in existence:

Rapier:

Damage -- 1d10 +1; Armor Pen 0; Fast, Agile Fighting, Primitive

Fast -- From Inqusitor's Handbook -- the weapon imposes a -20 penalty on attacks to Parry it. It's a flexible, quick weapon

Agile Fighting -- Homebrew -- Due to the weapon's construction and common method of use, relying on quick, agile slashes and stabs, it does not add the wielder's SB to its damage. However, an agile fighter can use the weapon to slip between the seams of armor, tough scales, or ribs. The weapon ignores an amount of damage reduction from Armor or TB equal to its wielder's AB.


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#6 Zrako

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 11:02 AM

Objulen said:

Fgdsfg said:

 

Objulen said:

 

 

Rapier:

Damage -- 1d10 +1; Armor Pen 0; Fast, Agile Fighting, Primitive

Fast -- From Inqusitor's Handbook -- the weapon imposes a -20 penalty on attacks to Parry it. It's a flexible, quick weapon

Agile Fighting -- Homebrew -- Due to the weapon's construction and common method of use, relying on quick, agile slashes and stabs, it does not add the wielder's SB to its damage. However, an agile fighter can use the weapon to slip between the seams of armor, tough scales, or ribs. The weapon ignores an amount of damage reduction from Armor or TB equal to its wielder's AB.

The last line needs to be carefully thought about.  Reducing TB is a dangerous way to overpower a weapon.  Remember that stated as such a space marine hit with a rapier by another marine could do more damage than most devestating weapons on the books, and a rapier is not devestating it is effective at slipping through armor not destroying corpus systems.  I'd suggest you go with:

 

This weapon ignores an amount of Armor equal to that of the wielders Agility bonus when 2 DoS are rolled on the WS test.



#7 Objulen

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 06:11 PM

Zrako said:

 

The last line needs to be carefully thought about.  Reducing TB is a dangerous way to overpower a weapon.  Remember that stated as such a space marine hit with a rapier by another marine could do more damage than most devestating weapons on the books, and a rapier is not devestating it is effective at slipping through armor not destroying corpus systems.  I'd suggest you go with:

This weapon ignores an amount of Armor equal to that of the wielders Agility bonus when 2 DoS are rolled on the WS test.

 

 

 

I took that into account by having it no long benefit from SB. It's actually a bit weaker -- someone with 3 TB and Guard Flak (4 armor) hit by a SM with a best mono-sword and an 8 SB is going to take 1d10 + 2 after everything is said and done (1d10 + 9 - 7).  Any further increases to SB will do increasing damage.

Someone with this weapon and an 8 AB is going to deal that same person 1d10 +1, since it doesn't benefit from SB. Increasing AB at this point does nothing. 

Essentially, it uses AB instead of SB, but has a drawback because of it -- it's not as effective against lightly armored enemies at higher AB values.

Now, the question is whether the compatibility with stacking your AB for Dodge and the like makes it too powerful for an Assassin, since it allows for better synergy, but that's the only real concern I see with it. 

 



#8 Larkin

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 10:19 AM

 You couldn't realistically fight with this thing, just fyi. The rotational action would end up breaking a persons wrist, which is the primary strong point for rapier and epee fencing.

Yes, I know, bringing real life to RPG, but even the chainsword makes sense in Real life (to an extent). With a Chainsword you're striking head on, with arm strength more than wrist strength. The wrist is part of it, but it not the primary strong point along the entire arm, mainly because it is supported by the length of the arm.

With a Drill Rapier, you don't have this. With the example given, your wrist is bent at least 45 degrees to wield it properly, and if you use a more modern rapier/epee grip (like you realistically would) your wrist is not bent, but is still the weak point. The entire time the drill part is on, you're exerting counter pressure in one direction to keep it stable. Then the instant you hit someone, your entire arm is rotated the opposite direction (aka the way you were applying pressure before). You would either drop the weapon, or break your wrist/elbow/arm.



#9 Objulen

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 08:13 AM

 Unless it has a rigid bracing of some kind, like smart mesh armor, which supports your wrist and arm when you strike. 

Not as likely, but in the grim darkness of the far future, they have super drill weapons (in the Inquisitor's Handbook). Though those are usually hand implants. 



#10 Larkin

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 10:12 AM

Objulen said:

 Unless it has a rigid bracing of some kind, like smart mesh armor, which supports your wrist and arm when you strike. 

Not as likely, but in the grim darkness of the far future, they have super drill weapons (in the Inquisitor's Handbook). Though those are usually hand implants. 

If you have that you lose out on the primary advantage of using a sword in combat, aka the speed of response and the ability to properly parry.



#11 Alpha Chaos 13

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 04:49 AM

Larkin said:

 You couldn't realistically fight with this thing, just fyi. The rotational action would end up breaking a persons wrist, which is the primary strong point for rapier and epee fencing.

Yes, I know, bringing real life to RPG, but even the chainsword makes sense in Real life (to an extent). With a Chainsword you're striking head on, with arm strength more than wrist strength. The wrist is part of it, but it not the primary strong point along the entire arm, mainly because it is supported by the length of the arm.

With a Drill Rapier, you don't have this. With the example given, your wrist is bent at least 45 degrees to wield it properly, and if you use a more modern rapier/epee grip (like you realistically would) your wrist is not bent, but is still the weak point. The entire time the drill part is on, you're exerting counter pressure in one direction to keep it stable. Then the instant you hit someone, your entire arm is rotated the opposite direction (aka the way you were applying pressure before). You would either drop the weapon, or break your wrist/elbow/arm.

I appluad your critical thinking on this, as well as the imagination that spawned it. I have a riposte that would make this weapon useable: bionic arm! No pesky bones to break. The flesh is weak.



#12 Larkin

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 08:20 AM

Alpha Chaos 13 said:

Larkin said:

 

 You couldn't realistically fight with this thing, just fyi. The rotational action would end up breaking a persons wrist, which is the primary strong point for rapier and epee fencing.

Yes, I know, bringing real life to RPG, but even the chainsword makes sense in Real life (to an extent). With a Chainsword you're striking head on, with arm strength more than wrist strength. The wrist is part of it, but it not the primary strong point along the entire arm, mainly because it is supported by the length of the arm.

With a Drill Rapier, you don't have this. With the example given, your wrist is bent at least 45 degrees to wield it properly, and if you use a more modern rapier/epee grip (like you realistically would) your wrist is not bent, but is still the weak point. The entire time the drill part is on, you're exerting counter pressure in one direction to keep it stable. Then the instant you hit someone, your entire arm is rotated the opposite direction (aka the way you were applying pressure before). You would either drop the weapon, or break your wrist/elbow/arm.

 

 

I appluad your critical thinking on this, as well as the imagination that spawned it. I have a riposte that would make this weapon useable: bionic arm! No pesky bones to break. The flesh is weak.

We already have this then, Dark Heresy Inquisitor's Handbook, Pg 135, The Breacher.



#13 Alpha Chaos 13

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 06:17 AM

Yeah, but the breacher is a big, heavy industrial drill. This is more of a precision wrapon. Think mining drill vrs. drill press.



#14 Larkin

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 09:26 AM

 So what you're saying is that you're wielding something like this: javascript:void(0);/*1322688359310*/ One handed?



#15 Alpha Chaos 13

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:47 AM

Larkin said:

 So what you're saying is that you're wielding something like this: javascript:void(0);/*1322688359310*/ One handed?

A breacher isn't as big as an industrial drill, either. I wasn't being literal, just trying to establish that the scale is quite different.



#16 Larkin

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 06:19 AM

Alpha Chaos 13 said:

Larkin said:

 

 So what you're saying is that you're wielding something like this: javascript:void(0);/*1322688359310*/ One handed?

 

 

A breacher isn't as big as an industrial drill, either. I wasn't being literal, just trying to establish that the scale is quite different.

Well i think I should make my point then. If you have to resort to having an augmented arm to wield such a weapon, it will be built into an augment first thing.



#17 George Labour

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 07:25 AM

Pretty much every astartes weapon technically requires the user to undergo a series of hefty augmentations (the actual process of becoming an astartes) before they can even hope to use the weapon. But it's a rare astartes who has a bolter built into his face rather than carrying it in his hands.

Which would be a very good place to have a gun once you get past the issue of muzzle flare as it then becomes a literal look and shoot weapon.

Honestly I kind of like the idea of a hyper fast drill weapon being used as a hyper tech analog to a piercing weapon, and not just because of the obvious Gurren Lagan references you can make.

Were I to do this I'd most likely take a previous poster's idea of giving it Fast from The Inquisitor's Handbook, and the ability to ignore armor up to one's agility bonus, and maybe tearing. I'd also be tempted to give it unwieldy or at least unbalanced as it doesn't strike me as an incredibly useful means of blocking a melee attack.

It'd also be an exotic weapon with an availability of very rare at the minimum.



#18 Larkin

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 08:17 AM

George Labour said:

Pretty much every astartes weapon technically requires the user to undergo a series of hefty augmentations (the actual process of becoming an astartes) before they can even hope to use the weapon. But it's a rare astartes who has a bolter built into his face rather than carrying it in his hands.

Which would be a very good place to have a gun once you get past the issue of muzzle flare as it then becomes a literal look and shoot weapon.

Honestly I kind of like the idea of a hyper fast drill weapon being used as a hyper tech analog to a piercing weapon, and not just because of the obvious Gurren Lagan references you can make.

Were I to do this I'd most likely take a previous poster's idea of giving it Fast from The Inquisitor's Handbook, and the ability to ignore armor up to one's agility bonus, and maybe tearing. I'd also be tempted to give it unwieldy or at least unbalanced as it doesn't strike me as an incredibly useful means of blocking a melee attack.

It'd also be an exotic weapon with an availability of very rare at the minimum.

That's because the Astartes weapons were built for the already Genetically modified and altered Astartes instead of normal humans.

Honestly, I wouldn't give it Fast, but then, as should be pretty obvious, I wouldn't include the weapon in any campaign I run. Unweildy is a good one, as the rotation is going to throw your aim off enough while attacking, bringing it around to parry would be practically impossible.

I can't see using this over a Power Fielded rapier though.



#19 Alpha Chaos 13

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 08:41 AM

Larkin said:

I can't see using this over a Power Fielded rapier though.

I totally agree. Of course not all 40K tech is the "best choice". I'm not trying to lobby for this weapon, I just think it's a creative idea & am enjoying going over it in my mind. And with regard to the built-in drill vrs. hand-held version. I for one would prefer a bionic arm without a big drill bit sticking out of it for my day-to-day life. By that logic, why doesn't every soldier in the 40K galaxy have a gun in place of a hand on their bionic limbs? It would probably be easier to install than all those pesky, fiddly fingers!



#20 George Labour

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 07:31 PM

In the weird dark faery tale setting that is the 40kverse the rule of kewl or just plain exotic often takes precedence over what would appear logical or even incredibly useful.

All it takes is one noble house suddenly deciding that drill swords are a good way to display their superiority to make the weapon become a new subsector (or even sector) wide badge of honor. After a century or eighty then it'll become so entrenched in the typical imperial mindset that anyone saying drillswords aren't all that great will be declared a heretic and be converted into an assembly servitor that makes new drill swords.

Or some minor arm of the ecclesiarchy decides that beleives an ancient text reads as  'piercing the heavens like the drilling sword of the righteous' and thus they need to combine the two tools into one emperor inspired weapon.

Not that I really think such a thing should be a remarkably effective weapon compared to a power sword and other iconics bits of mutilating power, but I see no reason to say it simply cannot be. If anything it'd be a useful means of adding some character to the latest pack of foppush inbred nobles the explorers will be robbing that week.

 

 

 






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