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One Week Til I launch My Campaign and I Was Wondering...


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#1 eggmancorp

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 03:34 PM

 Okay: Here's a silly question but it's a real concern of mine.  I'm about to launch my BC campaign and I was wondering:  What's stopping the Khorne Berserker from decorating his shoulder plate with the face of the Apostate?  No, really!  In the first 10mins of the game the Apostate would be like "I think we should..." and  right then and there the Berserker would have a reason (not that he needs one) to cut the Apostate head off and decorate his shoulder plate with his surprised face.  Fluff wise, Chaos Space Marines have  no regards for mortals.  How does that work, actually?



#2 1c33m4k3r

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 05:45 PM

From my interpretation of the Black Crusade setting conceits, Chaos Space Marines can be much more open-minded than their Loyalist counterparts. Why turn away anybody willing to assist you in overthrowing the Corpse-Emperor's stagnant Imperium? Remember that for a non-Space Marine to merely survive in the Screaming Vortex - let alone build up a reputation and begin gathering followers, as the Black Crusade humans do - they need to be pretty frigging skilled, depraved, or some combination of the two. If the Chaos Space Marines refuse to respect the "mere mortals", they could at the very least acknowledge their potential usefulness.

As to the rampaging berserker quandry: I don't think any individual willing to murder their allies at the slightest provocation is a beneficial addition to the warband. The pre-made World Eater Berserker from Broken Chains was described as more than willing to enter battle any time, but respected authority - as long as said authority eventually brought about more combat for the berserker to participate in. I wholeheartedly recommend that route: it would bring about the opportunity for some inter-party conflict (when the Berserker is forced to abstain from a potentially massive conflict, for example), but not destabilize the entire structure (when the berserker decides the small talky-person has breathed for too long).



#3 coolzyg

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 05:54 PM

This is old topic. Okey so apostate though about plan to take down whole hive and kill all human in the name of dark gods but khorn zerker would kill this apostate. So firstly he would gain k10+5 bad corruption, because compact fails because of him. There is good chance he would lose limb, turn inside out or other nasty gifts. After that the rest of the group would kill him or stun him and then torture him then maybe torture him little more and then kill him.

Khone followers aren't stupid they also see big picture if they will behave now later they would kill more.

Also CSM sometimes respect mortals because without them they can't achieve objective or they are champions of gods



#4 moepp

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 04:52 AM

It´s definetly trickier than in a good-guy group. I think as GM your first priority should be to think of reason why they need eachother and let them know it, in character ofc. A chaos group rp´d as such, can be eachothers throat quickly.

As soon as the characters got used to eachother, learned of eachothers qualities and usefulness this will relax. And at somepoint maybe even something like loyalty and friendship will develop in the group :P. But the beginning is definetly bumpier than in other rpg´s.



#5 eggmancorp

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 02:51 AM

1c33m4k3r said:

If the Chaos Space Marines refuse to respect the "mere mortals", they could at the very least acknowledge their potential usefulness. 

Thanks guys,  I know what I'll do.  I'm going to put the group in a situation where they need eachother to survive.  I just hope after a couple of session of them working together they will work as a well oiled heretical machine.

     I hate GMs who micro manage and I won't stand for it.  I'd like to keep them from murdering eachother and work together.  But I want it to be their idea.  Being told how to play your character hammers away at the fun factor.  I just hope that mere survival is good enough incentive.



#6 Santiago

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 06:55 AM

 Though there might be few IC reasons to prevent the Berserker from waisting the apostate (save for the Apostates silver tongue) a bit of OOC concideration might help. They will be forming a party, so party play might be needed. Otherwise present tests that don't involve combat.



#7 mortagon

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 12:46 AM

Just talk to your players about this before you start the game. Let them come up with a solution why their characters would work together. In my group we have an unwritten social contract that there will be no killing off each others characters unless all parties agree. I've had groups split up and become enemies IRL because of these sorts of in-game conflicts.

I've played with players that wants nothing but killing everything in sight and particularily the othe rplayers because he has to "prove" that his character is better than everyone elses. It is important to teach these kinds of players that the games is suppossed to be cooperative and that it isn't a competition. If said player can't respect that he should probably not be playing an RPG.


"I am disillusioned enough to see that no man's opinion on any subject is worth a damn unless backed up with enough genuine information to make him really know what he is talking about." H.P *Lovecraft


#8 Zarkov N

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 07:19 AM

The cry of  "It's what my character would do" to excuse player versus player actions is weak sauce.  

Anyway.  Any game when you're playing bad guys, you want to establish between your players the understanding that the game works when they play together rather than against each other.  Get that out there nice and early.  Make sure everyone understands fully and accepts the responsibility for making the game work.

Aside from that, I'd just like to echo what 1c33m4k3r said: "I don't think any individual willing to murder their allies at the slightest provocation is a beneficial addition to the warband."  You could be a bunch of random strangers thrown together by fate who are just passing the time until you can knife each other in the back, but wouldn't it be more fun if you could get along and really raise some hell by working together?



#9 moepp

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:19 PM

Zarkov N said:

The cry of  "It's what my character would do" to excuse player versus player actions is weak sauce.  

It can be used as weak excuse, and mostly is when a PC attacks another without provocation. It either means that the player has created a character that is not compatible with a group, or that it´s simply immature behaviour.

Generally spoken though, this sentence determines the difference between playing the game and roleplaying the game. This can lead to violence and even death within the group. Though if it happens unprovoked there´s something wrong with either the character or the player.

And having a violent and aggressive character is by no means a justification to routinely bully the groupmembers around. Either a player can play such a character without constantly sowing discontent among the group or he can´t.

Said provocation can be avoided with evaluating the situation and its likely outcomes OOC.



#10 Amroth

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:38 AM

So I am guessing the game has now at least started if not finished, I should ask how did it go?

Did you end up getting the players to co-operate or at the very least not slaughter each other?



#11 Cryhavok

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:11 AM

Out of character reason: because the apostate player will roll a thousand sons sorceror and use it to turn the bezerker into a self mutilating sheep humping hermaphradite.

In character reason: because the berzerker is not a raving lunatic and a complete idiot. The description of a khorne bezerker does not include mindlessly kills everything around it.

A better question would be what would stop the khorne bezerker from claiming the apostates skull for his god after the apostate fails the group in some way.


#12 DigitalRedneck

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 03:40 AM

My one irrevocable rule at my table - thou shall not ruin the good time of another player. Ever. I invite folks to come to my place so I can tell a good story and entertain some friends. I put loads of work into the effort. Why am I going to ever invite you back if you ruin it by killing another players PC they spent loads of time on creating? It will certainly ruin all my effort to make them have a fun and exciting experiance that Saterday at my house, and it sours my long hours of work trying to entertain. To be frank. Screw that. Every player at my table is obligated to figure out for themselves why they can work with the group. I encourage role playing group strife, but everybody needs to be mature about it and use the opritunity to tell a good story and not to harass another player. 

Ask your player to tell you why and how this Beserker will work with the group, and let them know if the answers are not good enough they will have to make a more group friendly PC in order to play. Period. 



#13 Amroth

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:27 PM

DigitalRedneck said:

My one irrevocable rule at my table - thou shall not ruin the good time of another player. Ever. I invite folks to come to my place so I can tell a good story and entertain some friends. I put loads of work into the effort. Why am I going to ever invite you back if you ruin it by killing another players PC they spent loads of time on creating? It will certainly ruin all my effort to make them have a fun and exciting experiance that Saterday at my house, and it sours my long hours of work trying to entertain. To be frank. Screw that. Every player at my table is obligated to figure out for themselves why they can work with the group. I encourage role playing group strife, but everybody needs to be mature about it and use the opritunity to tell a good story and not to harass another player. 

Ask your player to tell you why and how this Beserker will work with the group, and let them know if the answers are not good enough they will have to make a more group friendly PC in order to play. Period. 

 

Here, here Digital I could not have put it better myself. In fact if you don't mind I am going to adopt the very same rule myself for my group (I think they are mature enough not to need it but it doesn't hurt to have it).



#14 DigitalRedneck

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:22 AM

Amroth said:

DigitalRedneck said:

 

My one irrevocable rule at my table - thou shall not ruin the good time of another player. Ever. I invite folks to come to my place so I can tell a good story and entertain some friends. I put loads of work into the effort. Why am I going to ever invite you back if you ruin it by killing another players PC they spent loads of time on creating? It will certainly ruin all my effort to make them have a fun and exciting experiance that Saterday at my house, and it sours my long hours of work trying to entertain. To be frank. Screw that. Every player at my table is obligated to figure out for themselves why they can work with the group. I encourage role playing group strife, but everybody needs to be mature about it and use the opritunity to tell a good story and not to harass another player. 

Ask your player to tell you why and how this Beserker will work with the group, and let them know if the answers are not good enough they will have to make a more group friendly PC in order to play. Period. 

 

 

 

Here, here Digital I could not have put it better myself. In fact if you don't mind I am going to adopt the very same rule myself for my group (I think they are mature enough not to need it but it doesn't hurt to have it).

Please feel free to hijack my game tables Sacred Rule. It sounds like you have a great group if you suspect they do not need it. I see amazing games in your future…

PCs like this Kornish Berserker can be way cool to play. But if don't as a way to abuse players just SUCKS big ones. But it would be cool if the other players supported the character concept too. Perhaps the other players could let the berserker relax by using captives as punching bags and whatnot and make an effort to keep some around to placate the Beserker in tense situation. 

Another thing I like to do with a PC like the Beserker is to thrash stuff in the room while demonstrating that the Berserker is deliberately trying to control his rages around his only "friends" in the Galaxy. .. 



#15 K0balt

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 10:32 PM

If one of my players wants to ruin, in character, through some grand scheme or all-out war the life of another character, so be it. But if it falls to petty "I don't like you so here is a chainsword to the neck while you sleep", rocks fall, he dies. Strife and contained tension in-group adds to the game, but outright dickishness does not.



#16 Terraneaux

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:40 PM

It's the duty of the players at a game (GM and 'players') to find a way in which they can have fun collaboratively.  Playing Killfuck Soulshitter the Berzerker is not the way to do it, unless he can find targets for his wrath that aren't his fellow PC's.  

 

On a related note, I'd keep in mind that Berzerkers are still oftentimes ancient and canny warriors.  If they just killed everything they saw they wouldn't be able to get on spaceships to go from planet to planet.  The Berserkers that still survive are all about *delayed* gratification.



#17 LarryHoTeep

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:27 AM

@eggmancorp

 

I was talking to my group about Game Mastering a few Black Crusader sessions in the futur and our veterant game master told me the golden rule about running a evil game.

 

You have to make sure that the player's character fear their boss. Think He-Man style. What keep his croonies in line? They feared Skeletor. Sauron in Lord of the ring is also a great exemple of controling with fear.

You could hear/encourage your players to make comments like: " I would crush you right how, but I wont do it because of our boss. If he was not there, I could kill you in an instant!"

 

I hope it helped.






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