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Frost and off hand weapons


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#1 Toscadero

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 01:58 AM

Last night the Overlord hit two of our players with Frost.  All weapons and armor were frosted.  According to the rules, when you attack with a weapon you must roll to see if it breaks.  The Overlord said that you also had to roll for the off hand weapon since it has bonuses used during the attack.  Can't find anything specific to the off hand weapon and Frost.  Thanks.

 

 



#2 Corbon

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 02:22 AM

Toscadero said:

Last night the Overlord hit two of our players with Frost.  All weapons and armor were frosted.  According to the rules, when you attack with a weapon you must roll to see if it breaks.  The Overlord said that you also had to roll for the off hand weapon since it has bonuses used during the attack.  Can't find anything specific to the off hand weapon and Frost.  Thanks.

 

 

As an aside, neither weapons nor armour are frosted, the hero is. If the hero passes the kit to a non-frosted hero it would not be in danger of breaking, and any new kit the hero recieves is affected by the frost tokens while they remain even if that kit was not present when the frost tokens were placed.

RtL pg31
If any power die rolls a blank, the weapon used to make the attack shatters and is discarded.

DJitD pg19
If a hero has two one-handed Melee weapons equipped at once, he may gain the benefits of an Off-Hand Bonus. The weapon the hero does not
use to attack
adds its off-hand bonus to attacks with the other weapon.

Pretty straight forward.

If giving an attack bonus was the criteria then Other items like Belt of Strength would also be at risk. But it is not the criteria and they are not at risk



#3 Toscadero

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 03:43 AM

Thanks for the answers.  That clears things up very well. 



#4 Emeketos

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:32 AM

 Trying to keep all frost questions together but this was a contested item in our last game (campaign) when they came across silence(deep elf) in an encounter.

 

one of the other questions we had in the group that we couldn't resolve was when do item breaking rolls take place.

 

In one example a hero with 3 frost tokens on him battles Silence and receives a guard order attacking him again at the start of the overlord's (me) turn. My contested opinion was that each swing would require a seperate breakage roll. They player contested that the roll should only happen on the end of the players turn and happen only once at the end of the players turn and not at all on the overlords turn.

 

I also wasn't clear on off hand items if they were destroyed/requires a seperate roll or skipped all together. Armor and shields if used requires seperate rolls but weapons were no clear at least by reading the discription of frost attacks. 



#5 Emeketos

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:42 AM

 Another question with frost

if a character gets killed with a frost token do the tokens go away or does the player still have to roll for armor and maybe shields(if used) assuming the attack did the 5+ points of damage required. This also goes with characters being one shoted by a frost attack. They die gaining a frost token 



#6 Steve-O

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:03 PM

Emeketos said:

 

In one example a hero with 3 frost tokens on him battles Silence and receives a guard order attacking him again at the start of the overlord's (me) turn. My contested opinion was that each swing would require a seperate breakage roll. They player contested that the roll should only happen on the end of the players turn and happen only once at the end of the players turn and not at all on the overlords turn.

 

 


Heroes with any frost tokens remaining must role [sic] 1 power die when attacking or using a shield: On a blank, the weapon/shield shatters.

The power die is rolled "when attacking" or "using a shield." You can debate about exactly when during the attack (or shield use) it gets rolled, but it is quite clear that the roll is made during the attack action (or shield use.) This means it needs to be rolled for each attack or shield usage as long as the hero remains frosted. And yes, Guard attacks made during the OL's turn are still attacks, and the die must still be rolled.

Incidentally, the rules don't say anything about the shattering effect interrupting the attack/shield use effect. Thus, no matter when exactly the frost die is rolled, the effect that the item was used for will still be resolved. So you can debate until the cows come home about exactly when the roll is made, but it won't change how things play out.

Emeketos said:

 

 Another question with frost

if a character gets killed with a frost token do the tokens go away or does the player still have to roll for armor and maybe shields(if used) assuming the attack did the 5+ points of damage required. This also goes with characters being one shoted by a frost attack. They die gaining a frost token 

 

 

Dead Heroes
A hero who has died is returned to the town and loses half his money (round down to the nearest 25 coins).  The hero’s wounds and fatigue are immediately restored to their maximum values. In addition, any lingering effects (such as burning, webs, poison, or transformation into a monkey) are immediately removed. During the next round, the hero takes his turn as normal.

Frost is a "lingering effect."  That means these tokens are removed when the hero dies.  A figure who is one-shotted by a frost attack is effectively immune to the frost as the tokens get discarded immediately.  This is true of all lingering effects, although the Curse effect is notable in that the hero with the cursed item is required to immediately re-equip the item after being resurrected (thus regaining the curse token) or else he must discard the cursed item.  The curse token does not technically remain beyond death, but it might seem like it if the hero player is unwilling to give up his item.



#7 Corbon

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:20 PM

Emeketos said:

 Another question with frost

if a character gets killed with a frost token do the tokens go away or does the player still have to roll for armor and maybe shields(if used) assuming the attack did the 5+ points of damage required. This also goes with characters being one shoted by a frost attack. They die gaining a frost token 

In addition to what Steve-O said...
The forst tokens go away when the hero dies which means that the attack is resolved (damage is done or a shield used) before the token is removed. Therefore the roll for breakage will happen on the attack that kills the hero.

Note however that placing a frost token happens after damage is done and shields are used, so if a hero is not frosted and hit with a frost causing attack, that attack will not break anything. Only subsequent attacks will be reolved with the Frost token in action.
So if, for example, Silence kills a hero who did not already have a frost token before that attack, there will be no frost effect at all. The attack itself does not suffer from the frost token, which is placed at the end of the attack, and then the hero dies and the newly placed frost token will be removed.



#8 Emeketos

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 08:12 PM

 I definately agree that no matter what the result of weapon breakage shield breakage the attack and defense rolls are unmodified. Shields reduce the damage the big nasty club-o-doom smacks the monster into oblivion then it has a chance to shatter.  I would agree getting killed with a frost token on you will protect the character equipment as the rules are written as well. 

 

This whole issue came up in a RtL campaign so 90% of the normal death penalties are moot. (no gold loss, etc). Its hard in a competitive games to avoid rules lawyering and to avoid some of the arguements expecially with fantasy flights reputation with poorly organized rule books. Well at least thats the rep with our local gaming groups. One of these days someone needs to introduce Fantasy Flight rule book authors to the concept of an "Index" 



#9 Steve-O

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:39 PM

Emeketos said:

This whole issue came up in a RtL campaign so 90% of the normal death penalties are moot. (no gold loss, etc). Its hard in a competitive games to avoid rules lawyering and to avoid some of the arguements expecially with fantasy flights reputation with poorly organized rule books. Well at least thats the rep with our local gaming groups. One of these days someone needs to introduce Fantasy Flight rule book authors to the concept of an "Index" 

I don't think anyone here would blame you for having rules questions about Descent. =P

In addition to suffering from poorly written rules, it's also one of the more fiercely competitive board games that I know of (assuming both sides want to play to win, anyway.)  That such disagreements will occur is only natural.  Hopefully they can be resolved in a calm and rational manner.  That's why the forums are here, so you can ask and we can help. =)

I don't know how many FFG games you own, but if its any consolation, they do seem to be getting better lately with the writing.  1e Descent is still from the old school, however.






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