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Card and Character Attributes


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#1 yagyu

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 08:13 PM

So im hoping that they make good use of attributes. Im seeing off the demo cards they use attributes such as Pilot, engineer, gambler and even wookiee.

What im hoping for is that they also use a characters nationality as an attribute. IE Han Solo, Smuggler/Pilot/Corellian instead of just smuggler/pilot.

The reason for this is because if you read the books, star wars characters are very proud and identifiable of the planet they came from. Everyone knows Corellia produces gamblers and skillfull pilots IE Han Solo, Wedge Antilles, Corran Horn, Mirax Terrik, Booster Terik ect.

By adding the characters nationality it opens up the possibilities of creating resource cards that will specifically target that characters race or nationality. IE Corellian Slip only usable by corellians. ect

I think this would make for a more full and complete and fun game. Im hoping they wont forget this, it seems from the demo cards they might have, but lord of the rings makes good use of attributes of characters race and nationality. IE Gondorian, Rohirim, Drawrf, Istari ect

Pretty much what im hoping they DONT do is just lump all humans into one catagory and not bother even putting anything to show they are human, corellian, coruscantian, commenorian, caridan, ect. If they only bother to label the aliens as wookiee, rodian, sullustan, ect, it to me feels a bit bland.

One could almost say they have an imperialist mind set lol

But yeah i think by including those details in the attributes it will give them allot more possibilities and give the game more dimensions and more options wd can use, especially down the line.

(Lets hope they read these lol)



#2 yagyu

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 08:18 PM

Oh I also noticed that while chewbacca states he is a wookiee, the Twi'lek smuggler character doesnt state she is a Twi'lek in her attributes. Only in the title of the card. This could pose a problem and end up having to be errata'd if cards specifically target the Twi'lek race attribute in the game text area and not the title area. Thinking tournement wise and players who tend to be rules lawyers and like to argue lol. But this kinda shows what im talking about. While chewbacca gets a wookie attribute in his game text the twilek smuggler does not. Nor does Han have corellian in his so it limits things.



#3 Budgernaut

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 05:20 AM

 I can see where you're coming from, Yagyu, but I'm going to throw some arguments and counter arguments out, just to explore this idea a little more.

In response to the Twi'lek Spice Runner card, maybe it's redundant to put the species in the game text when it's in the title. For example, lots of the WotC SW Minis had abilities that worked if "x" is contained in the name or a character has the "x" special ability. From that standpoint, any card affecting twi'leks would still affect the Twi'lek Spice Runner because it has the word "twi'lek" in it's title.

In response to nationalities, well, as a biologist I can see how it doesn't make sense. Twi'leks and wookiees are distinct species, not just nationalities, so it's easy to see how they could benefit from some species-specific card. From that standpoint, different nationalities for humans doesn't make sense because they're all still human. And what do you do with someone like Mission Vao? She was a twi'lek, but lived her whole life on Taris, so is she Tarisian or is she Twi'lek? If she's a Tarisian twi'lek, do we need Ryloth twi'leks as well? So now we're adding more and more tags to each card because we have to state their nationality and their species. And what of people who are born and raised in a system, but they hate it and represent everything opposite of what that system stands for? Will Vader be a Tatooinian? I'm assuming those types of characters would not get a nationality and neither would the vagabonds who are on the move their entire existences. I guess having some cards without nationalities isn't too big of a problem. 

One final point: you mentioned that Corellia produces smugglers and pilots. If that's the case, isn't it redundant to put Corellia on Han Solo's card? He's already a pilot and smuggler. And Wedge was an excellent pilot, but he wasn't a smuggler, so saying he's a Corellian could be misleading depending on what you think a Corellian is. Now, to shoot my argument in the foot. Perhaps it isn't about "Corellian" being equated to "smuggler, pilot." Maybe a special card, like Corellian Slip, would say "Only usable by a starship piloted by a Corellian pilot. That makes sense to me.

In summary, I think nationalities are a very rich and under-explored aspect of Star Wars that can really enhance gameplay and make it deeper. However, I don't see this card game being the right kind of venue for such a system. Their RPG should definitely involve a nationality mechanic of some sort. WotC made an interesting attempt at it in their Rebellion Era Campaign guide, but it felt more like an after-thought. This card game, however, seems too narrow for this type of mechanic. . . . And to counter my own argument once again, there shouldn't be any harm in throwing a few extra buzz words on each card just in case they do come out with a card that affects Corellians or Tatooinians. Like you said, Yagyu, then they wouldn't have to go back and errata their first few sets of cards because the mechanic would be built in even though it was dormant for the first year or so.


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#4 yagyu

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 10:15 AM

From a card designer point of view it makes sense to have the attributes, I am a card designer for a samurai project already in play testing phase online. And by identifying corellians from tattooinians it opens up more game play options. Now i see what your saying how one could feel redundant saying a twilek spice runner and then twilek species. But from experience in tournements you would be surprised at how many people will argue simple points if a card doesnt specify something in a certain area.

As i said if they are going to use wookiee it makes sense they should do so for each race. Star wars is very very big on identifying their characters through nationalities and races. As per the point of saying is vader a tatooinian well, hes an enemy card so theres no problem, we dont have to identify each and every storm trooper. As far as mission vaio we wont see her either lol, but lets take the example point u made, well i think a race can supercede the nationality attribute. Nationaility attribute would be more for enriching and diversifying the human population so they arent all lumped together, but like i said this also opens up other card possibilities that can be used. As a designer ive learned that whenever possible in card game design especially, always have the option for growth in various areas. Its allot easier then you would think to limit yourself and regret it later. Since they arent using game lore to identify skills and attributes like Deciphers star wars ccg did, they need to be carefull not to paint themselves into a corner so to say.

As far as your exampl of han being a corellian and pilot i dont see how that is redundant at all. What im implying about corellians being good pilots and gamblers is that by having the corellian attribute on it, you could make cards that target and enhance the corellians piloting or gambling abilities that other pilots or gamblers couldnt use. Thus you get the bonus for using a corellian and could eventually when enough cards are out favor making a corellian based deck. It comes down to giving us more deck building options which is always a plus on both their side and players side.

This gives players more options to work with, and gives them more options to create with as well as provides more cards easily produced, and thus less time brainstorming on well we have already done this and this and that card what now?

Even if they decide not to do such on every human or alien character it would still be nice to see it on mains. Such as Han being corellian, Leia being Alderaanian. I think this is important as having identify chewbacca as a wookiee. Being alderaanian is huge, their planet gets destroyed by the deathstar thus that alone gives alderaanians their own sets of cards that can be geared towards them. And there are plenty of alderaanian characters they can use. Leia Organa, Tycho Celchu, Winter just to name a few.

 



#5 Budgernaut

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 01:12 PM

 You're absolutely right. They should include where the characters are from. There really is no reason for them not to. It's not like they have to come up with some earth-shatteringly new and complex information on Star Wars lore. All they have to do is look it up and type a couple words in the character cards. On top of adding gameplay functions with future cards, it adds nice information for less-obsessed SW fans who may not know, for instance, that Jagged Fel grew up on a Chiss-controlled world (if they even know who Jag is).


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#6 yagyu

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 01:19 PM

Only the son of the empires greatest pilot next to Darth Vader. :P well let them guess who were talkin about lol



#7 MarthWMaster

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 04:30 AM

 This bothered me too, when I first saw that Admiral Ackbar is not a Mon Calamari. I'll admit I had not considered the home system possibility, though what would you do about spacer characters who have been traveling their whole lives?



#8 borithan

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 05:01 AM

I am not sure nationality is actually a big thing in Star Wars... ok, maybe in the Expanded Universe, but it makes next to no appearance in the films. In the films the identifying feature is "alien" or "Human" and "Good guy" or "Bad guy". Ok, we know Princess Leia comes from Alderann... but we don't get much about what that means. The fact that Han Solo is Corellian isn't event mentioned in the films, and the fact that Luke Skywalker comes from Tatooine doesn't have much impact on events. Even the Sepratists in the prequel trilogy don't seem to be nationalists as such, as they are forming some sort of alternate grouping (what are the rebelling against exactly? Ech... yet another reason the Prequels suck... they make no ******* sense). Also, it just adds yet another layer of complexity onto things if you are going to take nationalisty into account, and if you are not, it is just more unnecessary text on the card (frankly I don't think most people that don't know that Han Solo is Corellian care... however, the fact that he is a smuggler is core to his character).

And personally I feel it makes sense that you woudln't necessarily have racial identifiers on all cards that represent a member of their race, at least if you intend to make game use of it. You may not want a planned card that will target "Mon Calamari" cards to interact with Admiral Ackbar (for whatever reason), so even though he is a Squid, he isn't for game purposes.



#9 MarthWMaster

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 08:29 AM

borithan said:

 

I am not sure nationality is actually a big thing in Star Wars... ok, maybe in the Expanded Universe, but it makes next to no appearance in the films. In the films the identifying feature is "alien" or "Human" and "Good guy" or "Bad guy". Ok, we know Princess Leia comes from Alderann... but we don't get much about what that means. The fact that Han Solo is Corellian isn't event mentioned in the films, and the fact that Luke Skywalker comes from Tatooine doesn't have much impact on events. Even the Sepratists in the prequel trilogy don't seem to be nationalists as such, as they are forming some sort of alternate grouping (what are the rebelling against exactly? Ech... yet another reason the Prequels suck... they make no ******* sense). Also, it just adds yet another layer of complexity onto things if you are going to take nationalisty into account, and if you are not, it is just more unnecessary text on the card (frankly I don't think most people that don't know that Han Solo is Corellian care... however, the fact that he is a smuggler is core to his character).

And personally I feel it makes sense that you woudln't necessarily have racial identifiers on all cards that represent a member of their race, at least if you intend to make game use of it. You may not want a planned card that will target "Mon Calamari" cards to interact with Admiral Ackbar (for whatever reason), so even though he is a Squid, he isn't for game purposes.

 

 

That makes perfect sense when you take the existence of a "Wookiee" keyword out of the equation. To create an example based on your premise, what does someone who has only seen the movies care that Chewbacca is a Wookiee? To this person, a Wookiee is a member of Chewbacca's race, and that's it. Okay? So big deal. It's mentioned a couple of times, as opposed to Mon Calamari, which is not mentioned, thus giving one race a gameplay effect, and not the other. Why have racial text at all? 

To simplify things a bit, it's less about wanting the game to be complicated, and more about keeping things consistent. Personally, I feel that all Humans should have a "Human" keyword, and all non-Humans should have a keyword representing what race they belong to. But I could go the other way too (i.e. not having racial keywords), despite having a fondness for the EU. I just feel that making Chewbacca a Wookiee, but not making other aliens their respective races is just inconsistent enough so as to be annoying.



#10 spalanzani

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 06:55 AM

I have to admit, this hadn't really occurred to me before, though I suppose it should have due to the way the LotR game works, but now I've thought about it, I don't think it'll spoil it for me to not see a sort of mini-factfile thing for each character. One way that I think having the species on a card is for example, having an event something like Berserk Rage only useable on Wookiees or something, or having a Ryyk blade attachment that can only be used on Wookiees maybe.

I suppose it could be something they're working into the cards, following the demo last summer. And, as the OP says, let's hope they're reading these boards!


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