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#1 wapcaplets

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 05:14 PM

The Minotaur's text says, "Response: If this player becomes downed from a tackle attempt, this player may immediately attempt to tackle the same player that tackled him. Use this player's standing Star Power during this tackle attempt."

Does this ability work if the Minotaur is the one attempting the tackle and rolls XX?



#2 Trump

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 05:30 PM

wapcaplets said:

The Minotaur's text says, "Response: If this player becomes downed from a tackle attempt, this player may immediately attempt to tackle the same player that tackled him. Use this player's standing Star Power during this tackle attempt."

Does this ability work if the Minotaur is the one attempting the tackle and rolls XX?

I suppose it does, but I don't think he'd want to tackle himself.  :)  Seriously, I get what you're asking and the fact that the minotaur failed the tackle does not mean that the player he was going after tackled HIM instead so it's a moot point.



#3 wapcaplets

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 02:56 AM

Maybe they should clarify it with something along the lines of "If this player becomes downed from a tackle attempt made by an opposing player..."

Regardless of which player is rolling the dice, I consider both players to be in the act of trying to tackle each other. I feel like the X represents the defending player getting the better of the attacker, not the attacker slipping on a proverbial banana peel and falling down. Themeatically, I can see the Minotaur's ability working when the Minotaur rolls XX; the Minotaur is so aggressive that, even when he's dragged down on offense, he makes a last-ditch surge to tackle his opponent.

For the time being we'll play it to mean that it's only when the Minotaur is having dice rolled against it but I'd be interested to know what the designer's intent was.



#4 Dark Bunny Lord

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 08:45 PM

wapcaplets said:

Maybe they should clarify it with something along the lines of "If this player becomes downed from a tackle attempt made by an opposing player..."

Regardless of which player is rolling the dice, I consider both players to be in the act of trying to tackle each other. I feel like the X represents the defending player getting the better of the attacker, not the attacker slipping on a proverbial banana peel and falling down. Themeatically, I can see the Minotaur's ability working when the Minotaur rolls XX; the Minotaur is so aggressive that, even when he's dragged down on offense, he makes a last-ditch surge to tackle his opponent.

For the time being we'll play it to mean that it's only when the Minotaur is having dice rolled against it but I'd be interested to know what the designer's intent was.

It doesn't need to be clarified though, it's fairly obvious because the X would mean the minotaur tackled himself and thus he could use his "standing starpower" against himself to injure himself... although why anyone would choose to do this is beyond me.

I get what you're saying, but theme and mechanics don't mix like that lest they open up issues like you had. In terms of rules, he tackled himself. For all intents and purposes when you come across an issue and the "theme" suggests one things while the mechanics something else, go with the mechanics, they where made that way for a reason.



#5 Titan

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 04:09 AM

wapcaplets said:

Maybe they should clarify it with something along the lines of "If this player becomes downed from a tackle attempt made by an opposing player..."

Regardless of which player is rolling the dice, I consider both players to be in the act of trying to tackle each other. I feel like the X represents the defending player getting the better of the attacker, not the attacker slipping on a proverbial banana peel and falling down. Themeatically, I can see the Minotaur's ability working when the Minotaur rolls XX; the Minotaur is so aggressive that, even when he's dragged down on offense, he makes a last-ditch surge to tackle his opponent.

For the time being we'll play it to mean that it's only when the Minotaur is having dice rolled against it but I'd be interested to know what the designer's intent was.


 

I think it would be erroneous to consider that the players are trying to tackle each other. The rulebook states on P. 11 that a Tackler Down result does not count as a successful tackle for the target(opposing) player. The key part here is that, per his ability, the Minotaur "may immediately attempt to tackle the same player that tackled him". Since his missed tackle does not count as a tackle for the opposing player, the Minotaur cannot be considered "tackled" only "downed". Therefore his ability isn't valid unless the opponent actively targets and tackles him.



#6 Rilden al Shiba

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 10:42 AM

A tackler that is dowwned due to a bad dice is not considered to be succesfully tackled for any player (not just the opposing player).

And the first question (the minautor) has no sense if you play in the game spirit. It's not Magic, it's BloodBowl :)

 



#7 wapcaplets

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 05:32 AM

I don't know if anyone who has responded has played "real" Blood Bowl before but tackling (or "blocking" as it's called in Blood Bowl) is considered to be an act between two players where the results can be:

1. Defender down
2. Defender stumbles
3. Push
4. Both Down
5. Attacker Down

BBTM has simplified these results to what we know in the card game. I was wondering if the Minotaur's ability was meant to encompass the scenario covered by what Blood Bowl players know as "Both Down." I'm not mentioning this to assert that it ought to because it's been adequately answered above but this is a bias that Blood Bowl players may come into the game with.

 



#8 Dark Bunny Lord

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 05:13 PM

wapcaplets said:

I don't know if anyone who has responded has played "real" Blood Bowl before but tackling (or "blocking" as it's called in Blood Bowl) is considered to be an act between two players where the results can be:

1. Defender down
2. Defender stumbles
3. Push
4. Both Down
5. Attacker Down

BBTM has simplified these results to what we know in the card game. I was wondering if the Minotaur's ability was meant to encompass the scenario covered by what Blood Bowl players know as "Both Down." I'm not mentioning this to assert that it ought to because it's been adequately answered above but this is a bias that Blood Bowl players may come into the game with.

 

(I didn't notice it at first but I have recently and noticed several others have said what I'm about to say.

 

No it wouldn't do anything because defender down does not count as a tackle. It says in the rules PG 11 at the bottom of the "Tackling" rules there is a note that says:

"Some abilities take effect when players are "successfully tackled". If a manager applies the tackler down result, it does not count as a successful tackle for the target player."

 

This rule is very clear that the minortaurs ability would only trigger if he got the little "burst" tackle mark and chose it whilst getting the x would not trigger it because no tackle was scored.






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