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#1 reidchapman

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 12:34 PM

Everyone complains about the speed of the game and the set up time.  But aside from that Descent still isn't flawless.  List you non-game speed related complaints that you wish ffg will fix for the next edition.

My two complaints:

The first one is purely thematic: ranged weapons should be bows and crossbows and the occasional throwing weapon.  Most of the ranged weapons in Descent 1 are wierd magical orbs or magic sticks or scarabs (do you throw them?)

The second complaint is partially thematic, but relates to game mechanics: The overlord is always desperate, the whole traps, spawning and card mechanics reinforce an idea that the overlord needs to pull every trick out of his hat in order to have a fighting chance against the heroes.  The heroes don't feel like their david desperately fighting goliath.  They feel like they are goliath and the overlord is this petty nuisance.   Possible fixes could include:

Include feats with the base game. (Means the heroes have tricks they can pull)

Make monsters more dangerous, spawning and cards less dangerous.

Limit Hero ability to get splash weapons/reduce splash weapons power.

Are my complaints too late? do you guys have any complaints?



#2 Steve-O

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 01:48 AM

reidchapman said:

The first one is purely thematic: ranged weapons should be bows and crossbows and the occasional throwing weapon.  Most of the ranged weapons in Descent 1 are wierd magical orbs or magic sticks or scarabs (do you throw them?)

One assumes you do throw them, if they're ranged weapons and not magic weapons.  "Magic" attacks, thematically, are attacks where the primary damage source is raw magical energy (usually coming from a runestone or a staff of some kind.)  The scarabs are magic items that you throw at people and then they presumably explode in a shower of magic beetles or whatever.  Powered by magic, but the primary source of damage is beetles.  There are also magic swords and axes that are (rightly, IMHO) classified as "Melee" attacks.  I don't have my decks here to look through them right now, but I don't recall any particular weapon striking me as being in the "wrong" category.  You just have to think about how the weapon COULD be used in the category it has been assigned to.  And remember that "magic weapon" need not equal "Magic attack."

reidchapman said:

The second complaint is partially thematic, but relates to game mechanics: The overlord is always desperate, the whole traps, spawning and card mechanics reinforce an idea that the overlord needs to pull every trick out of his hat in order to have a fighting chance against the heroes.  The heroes don't feel like their david desperately fighting goliath.  They feel like they are goliath and the overlord is this petty nuisance.   Possible fixes could include:

Include feats with the base game. (Means the heroes have tricks they can pull)

Make monsters more dangerous, spawning and cards less dangerous.

Limit Hero ability to get splash weapons/reduce splash weapons power.

Sounds to me like the Overlord in your game is spending too much time and effort trying to keep the starting monsters around for a turn or two longer.  Monsters are expendable, and the primary source of monster damage (especially after the heroes get to Silver and Gold) will be spawned monsters, not the ones on the map.  Accept this and let the starters die and you'll find the Overlord's side is much easier to manage.  It's funny that you think the Overlord always struggles, since most people would agree the Overlord's learning curve is much easier than the heroes'.

As an aside, how would giving the heroes Feats in the base box help to fix the issue of the heroes overrunning the Overlord too easily?  Doing that and making the Overlord's cards "less dangerous" would only increase that particular issue, as I see it.



#3 reidchapman

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 05:43 AM

About the magic thing: Really I'm complaining against things like "The scythe of reaping" or the "souldrinker" relic, They sound and look like melee weapons, but they aren't.

What I'm saying is that the ease with which the starting monsters die is a fundamental problem with the game, spawn cards should be used to reinforce your monsters, not be your primary source of damage.

By giving Heroes feats in the base game (and balancing the game so they need to use them) means that the Heroes have to surprise the OL every here and there.

(Note: I haven't played non-campaign descent in years)



#4 Steve-O

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 11:59 AM

reidchapman said:

About the magic thing: Really I'm complaining against things like "The scythe of reaping" or the "souldrinker" relic, They sound and look like melee weapons, but they aren't.

Yeah, I don't have any particular problem with those.  I think Soul Biter is kind of cool, actually.  I kind of wish it had played a larger role in the game somehow, rather than being a one-off showpiece for one quest.  Soul Biter is an original(ish) concept for a magic weapon; a sword that appears to throw out magic screaming faces that drain life from their targets, and since magic definitely exists in this setting, I don't see any thematic flaws with its design.

reidchapman said:

What I'm saying is that the ease with which the starting monsters die is a fundamental problem with the game, spawn cards should be used to reinforce your monsters, not be your primary source of damage.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.  I don't even really disagree, to be honest.  But in my experience, the Overlord is rarely desperate until the heroes have gold gear.  So to say that your OL is "always desperate" leaves me inclined to think there are some perfectly valid things you could be doing to improve your OL's game without wishing for a second edition that will magically make everything better.  The lack of granularity (Copper/Silver/Gold) in power advancement IS a problem with the game, and one which DOES appear to be getting addressed if the sheer number of new numbers on the 2e character sheets are any indication. =)



#5 reidchapman

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 02:05 PM

Maybe they should have tiers of monsters, like in the deatwatch rpg.

Troops: creatures that individually can't stand to a single hero, but come in large numbers.

Elites: creatures that match the heroes one for one, do about the same damage, have nearly the same health and probably have a few dangerous mechanics.

Master: creatures that a hero cannot face alone, do only a little more damage then elites, but have heavy armour and high health.

If you look at vanilla descent, even a dragon would barely meet the requirements of being an elite, (A hero with only store bought or copper level stuff can easily take a dragon 1v1)

Of the things I have seen about descent 2: I'm loving the changes, armour dice, built in campaign and hero progression, and the amazing looking tiles.  I just hope to see some more dangerous monsters.



#6 AndyHugwell

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 06:01 AM

Hey,

 

What REALLLLY annoys me are miniatures that are almost impossible to put next to other miniatures because of how far they stretch outside of their base. Razorwings, Demons, Blood Apes, Medusae are all good examples.  






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