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How to combat?


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#1 Simanas

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 11:28 PM

Hello,

Could someone write down a step by step example of common combat ? How does combat happen between Player A (attacker, with 3 starting units ) and Player B (defender, also with 3 starting units)?
Its hard for me to understand how actually combat happens from rules book...

Thank a lot!



#2 wootersl

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 02:03 AM

It's pretty simple once you get the concept. Here's the quick rundown. Let's assume Player A has decided to invade a village with his 1 army (we're going to assume he's done it with upgraded artillery - you don't want to try to attack anything with just your basic units and a single army).

Let's say Player A had six unit cards, his initial 3 (1 artillery, 1 mounted and 1 infantry). Since then he's gained the tech card Mathematics (which upgrades his Artillery to rank 2) and purchased 3 more artillery units).

He takes his army into the village to attack and shuffles his six units and draws 3 units (hoping for 3 artillery units). He gets 2 artillery and 1 mounted. Not too bad. Now the player to the left draws 1 artillery, 1 mounted and 1 infantry unit from the market decks to represent the village, his units are all rank 1, while player A has two rank 2 artillery units and one rank 1 mounted. I've drawn some random units from my game so this will be an accurate combat.

Player A has the following cards: one Strength 3 Catapult, one Strength 2 Catapult and one Strength 2 Horseman.

Player B (playing as the village) has the following cards: one Strength 2 Archer, one Strength 2 Horseman and one Strength 2 Spearman.

Player B starts, as the defender. Since he knows that Player A has upgraded Artillery and bought some artillery units, he decides to try playing his Strength 2 Horseman (since they trump Artillery, they will get "first strike" and deal their damage first, if player A plays a card against it).

Now, here is the trick of combat. What matters at the end is the total strength of all remaining units (plus any bonuses). Players can play their units against each other or in separate ranks. For example, if Player A and player B decided not to play their units against each other at all and play each unit in separate ranks (see below) then Player A would have a total strength of 7 and player B would have a total strength of 6 (without any bonuses being considered) and player A would win by 1 point and the cards on the table would look like this:

Player A:

[Str 3 Catapult]                              [Str 2 Catapult]                                     [Str 2 Horseman]

Player B:

                              [Str 2 Archer]                                [Str 2 Horseman]                                      [Str 2 Spearman]

 

Each card is in it's own "rank" meaning they don't deal damage to each other and the players just total up the strength of all surviving units. However. good players won't do that. So player B played his Str 2 Horseman hoping to trump player A's artillery. Player A knows that player B has an artillery and a infantry left. His artillery trumps an infantry and a good player knows that rank 1 units can be strength 1, 2 or 3, so player A will save his Rank 3 Catapult until player B plays his infantry so he can trump it. So, player A decides to sacrifice his Horseman unit and play it. The field looks like this:

Player A:

[Str 2 Horseman]

Player B:

[Str 2 Horseman]

Both units deal damage at the same time and kill each other and are discarded.

Now, player B plays his Strength 2 Spearman. Infantry trumps Mounted, luckily, player A only has artillery left, so the units will deal damage at the same time. Now, Player A could play his strength 2 Catapult against the Spearman and they would kill each other, but Player A would lose his Artillery unit (which is an upgraded unit). Instead, Player A is going to take a gamble. He's hoping that player B has a strength 1 or 2 artillery left, so he plays his Strength 3 Catapult in a new rank. The field now looks like this:

Player A:

                                     [Str 3 Catapult]

Player B:

[Str 2 Spearman]

Player  has 1 card left. His Str 2 Archer. If he played it on the Str 3 Catapult, the Catapult would take 2 damage (and survive) and the Archer would be destroyed. Player B knows that player A has 1 card left. He also knows that if he plays his 1 card in a new rank, his total strength at the moment will be 4 against Player A, strength 3. all player B could hope to do is get a tie (and ties go to the defender), if player A had a strength 1 unit. So, player B plays his strength 2 Archer in a new rank. The field now looks like this:

Player A:

                                 [Str 3 Catapult]

Player B:

[Str 2 Spearman]                               [Str 2 Archer]

Player A has his Str 2 Catapult left. He knows that playing that against either of Player B's units will mean the units would kill each other. But, again, he would lose his artillery unit. Plus, his Str 2 Catapult gives him a total Str of 5 while Player B has a total Str of 4, player A would win. So, player A plays his unit in a new rank. The field looks like this:

Player A:

                                [Str 3 Catapult]                          [Str 2 Catapult]

Player B:

[Str 2 Spearman]                             [Str 2 Archer]

So, without any bonuses, Player A would win the combat. Player B's units are discarded and player A returns his units to his remaining forces.

That;s the most complicated part of the combat, I feel. The ranks confuse a lot of people. Hopefully that helps explain some things.



#3 Simanas

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 03:32 AM

Thanks a lot! now i understand it. thanks :)



#4 wootersl

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 03:43 AM

No problem. Always here to help. Here's something to remember. Combat plays out until all units are played. So, in the example above, if Player A had attacked with 2 armies, then he would have drawn 5 units. If he had drawn another strength 3 artillery and a strength 2 mounted and had those in his hand when he played the final card above, he would have played those last two units and his total strength would have been 10 versus Player B's total strength 4. A total slaughter, but that's why they suggest attacking with two armies or upgraded units.

Also, this has come up in other forums. The bonus you get from Great Generals (+4) and from Barracks (+2) are added to the final totals, not to each individual unit. So, in the example above, if Player A had a Great General in one of his cities, then his final total strength would have been 9 (Five from his units and +4 from the General). The same goes for the bonus you calculate from page 23 of the rule book.

But, glad to be of help!



#5 Fnoffen

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 09:17 PM

Now I have no intention to sound like a nag here, but one little detail: One doesn't play units in "ranks". It's called "fronts" as mentioned in the manual. Best to use the correct words as to avoid confusion imho.

To clarify my concern, compare the phrasing "a rank 2 unit in rank 1", where the italic "rank" is the units "level" and the bold "rank" is where the unit is played, to the phrasing "a rank 2 unit in front 1" where "rank" is the "level" and "front" is where the unit is played.

And also: if I recall correctly, Player A's [Str 3 Catapult] would be an artillery unit and would thus trump Player B's Infantry [Str 2 Spearman].


Pax Magnifica Bellum Gloriosum


#6 wootersl

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 12:02 AM

Yes, you are correct on both items. I kinda tossed it together quick and didn't pay attention. Sorry about that. So the end should look like this:

Now, player B plays his Strength 2 Archer. Now, Player A could play his strength 2 Catapult against the Archer and they would kill each other, but Player A would lose his Artillery unit (which is an upgraded unit). And he could play his strength 3 Catapult, but that would leave his Catapult with 1 damage left before it was killed (if damage equals or exceeds strength, it is destroyed). Instead, Player A knows that player B has an infantry left (and artillery trumps infantry, so his artillery would deal damage first), so he plays his Strength 3 Catapult in a new front. The field now looks like this:

Player A:

                             [Str 3 Catapult]

Player B:

[Str 2 Archer]

Player has 1 card left. His Str 2 Spearman. If he played it on the Str 3 Catapult, the Catapult would deal it's damage first and the Spearman would be destroyed. Player B knows that player A has 1 card left. He also knows that if he plays his 1 card in a new front, his total strength at the moment will be 4 against Player A, strength 3. all player B could hope to do is get a tie (and ties go to the defender), if player A had a strength 1 unit. So, player B plays his strength 2 Spearman in a new front. The field now looks like this:

Player A:

                          [Str 3 Catapult]

Player B:

[Str 2 Archer]                                [Str 2 Spearman]

Player A has his Str 2 Catapult left. He knows that playing that against the Player B's Archer the units would kill each other. But, again, he would lose his artillery unit. However, Artillery trumps Infantry, so Player A plays his Str 2 Catapult on the Str 2 Spearman and deals his damage first, destroying the Spearman. The field looks like this:

Player A:

                         [Str 3 Catapult]           [Str 2 Catapult]

Player B:

[Str 2 Archer]

So, without any bonuses, Player A would win the combat (Player A's total of 5 to Player B's total of 2). Player B's units are discarded and player A returns his units to his remaining forces.

That;s the most complicated part of the combat, I feel. The ranks confuse a lot of people. Hopefully that helps explain some things.



#7 Jimson

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 09:06 AM

I would also like to thank you for your examples above.  It was very helpful.  I just had one question, but I think I know the answer.  Assuming the fronts looked like this (from your example above):
 

Player A:

 

                         [Str 3 Catapult]

Player B:

[Str 2 Archer]                                  [Str 2 Spearman]

 

Player A must either play against the Str 2 Spearman, or start a new front.  He can't go back and play against the Str 2 Archer.  Correct?



#8 Fnoffen

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 06:18 AM

No. Player A may play his Str 2 Spearman on any of the two free fronts or start a new one.

His best choice in this particular case would, however, be to start a new front with it. Due to the fact that Player B's Archer would trump it and it would simultaneously kill/die against the Spearman. So to keep as many units as possible AND have a higher strength total, Player A would be best served to start a new front and end at a total strength of 5.

If, though, player A had a Str 2 Cavalry instead of the Str 2 Spearman his best choice would be to play it against the Archer since the Cavalry would trump the Archer and leave Player A at 5 str against Player B's 2 str.


Pax Magnifica Bellum Gloriosum





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