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Allies Unit Diversity


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#1 vengeance000

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 09:15 AM

So in looking over the Dust product range, I just realized that most of the Allies range being released are all just guys in the same power suit sculpt with new heads. They have 4 sets of power armor soldiers by my count. Oh look, British guys that get berets! Grim Reapers that get helmets! But otherwise, they are mostly the same.

Meanwhile Axis get gorillas, zombies, and power armor of their own. Allies pretty lame at this point, or no?



#2 Major Mishap

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 09:36 AM

No, can't see a problem with that.  In the comics it is the Axis that invents all the weird stuff and why would the Allies not share technology.  Just look at the Sherman tank and dozens of variations.  I don't think the scupts are the same anyway, as all have different weapons and perform different functions on the battlefield.



#3 Gobbo

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 10:34 AM

 I have to agree with Major Mishap.  I don't see a problem with that.  Swap out the heads and swap out the weapons to what the miniature is supposed to have and I am fine with that.

 



#4 Grand Inquisitor Fulminarex

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 11:19 AM

I do not mind what the allies are putting out, it is less weird than the Axis, but I feel it is more heroic in feel.

HOWEVER, the fact that most of the allies are a minor head or weapon variation is a fact, but it has been a fact with the line since day one. I made Stefan from the Axis Observer head and a sturmpioneer flamethrower body: HE IS EXACT.

Johnny One-Eye is not as easy. I took the officers head from THE BOSS and put it on a Victory MG guy. Almost exact, missing the eye patch, otherswide 90% the same.



#5 vengeance000

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 11:28 AM

I meant it more from the fact that I'd like a wider variety of sculpts than 4 same bodies with head/gun swaps, not from a military practicality standpoint. Just seems a little lazy to me on their part. Reminds me of the Mortal Kombat palette swap ninjas. I think there ended up being 7 or 8 that used the same character model by Mortal Kombat 3.



#6 Gimp

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 07:27 PM

I have no problem with having a limited number of bodies, with head and weapon swaps. 

I can reposition arms, or swap heads if I really feel the need, but with only three models per unit for the heavy jump infantry, the variety has been fine.

For the normal line soldiers, it stands the same.  While you could use more weapon positions, there is only a limited range where a model looks realistic, as opposed to a silly pose to look different.  Again, I could do arm or head swaps if I really felt the need for more difference.

The Axis models are the same, except you get two more squad types with the Gorillas and Zombies.  Not really that big a difference.

From a consumer standpoint, I really don't mind having fewer base sculpts, when it means they are keeping the overall cost down so it's easier to buy everything without eating my entire gaming budget. 

Most companies don't have that many sculpts, they just make people assemble the figures themselves, so people can pose them in ways no smart soldier would ever move, just to look different.  If someone really wants difference, without having to swap parts or rebase, they could buy the models unassembled, and put them together however they fit, just like the other companies' plastic figures.

I'm quite happy with both armies' variety and possibilities.



#7 Major Mishap

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 08:16 PM

vengeance000 said:

I meant it more from the fact that I'd like a wider variety of sculpts than 4 same bodies with head/gun swaps, not from a military practicality standpoint. Just seems a little lazy to me on their part. Reminds me of the Mortal Kombat palette swap ninjas. I think there ended up being 7 or 8 that used the same character model by Mortal Kombat 3.

It may be lazy but it does keep the cost down.  This is a common practice throughout the wargames industry and not just with DT.



#8 loken14

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:05 AM

 plus real war most soldiers are relaively uniform maybe one guy wear a bandolier one doesnt but everyone  gets the same uniform and usually the same set of a few guns to make real logistics easier to maintain



#9 Bravester

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:59 AM

I agree with Major Mishap and loken14. I really don't have a problem with it-it keeps costs down + is fairly historically accurate.

 



#10 Algesan

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 02:05 AM

I agree, the only ones that need distinction are the heroes and they get it.  The regular troops are just red shirts anyway.  If I was making a Dust RPG setting, the heroes would be street level supers and their squad would be bought followers that could be replaced between missions.



#11 felkor

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 02:35 AM

Algesan said:

I agree, the only ones that need distinction are the heroes and they get it. 

 

Sometimes they get it.  Other times not so much.  Rhino is just a hammer with a different head.  Stefan is just a flamethrower with an officer head.

I have to agree with the original post to a certain degree.  It's not a huge deal to me that there is so much reuse of parts, especially now that I'm painting them and can differentiate them as I wish, but at the same time, it doesn't make me want to go out and purchase all the different troop types either.  I have a limited budget, and can't buy everything Dust Tactics that comes out, and will be sticking for the most part to things that look decidedly different.

 

But I'm not complaining - as I said, I can't buy it all anyway, so I'm not about to have a tonne of troops looking the same.  I just will be less likely to buy squads if they look really similar to previous ones that I own.



#12 Gimp

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 05:54 AM

Using the same body types works better for a game that is trying for a level of believable history in their alternate history.

Soldiers, even special characters, don't normally get field uniforms that are that different, and when they do, it's normally simply a change of fabric, or a few special pieces of equipment.  A general in the US Army could add special extras to their uniform, like Patton's revolvers, but regular troops had general issue equipment.  That's where the GI for US soldiers came from.

It becomes a logistical nightmare to try and equip troops in multiple ways.  And while soldiers win battles, logistics wins wars.

I mentioned earlier that some game companies, and some players assembling their own models, use poses no real soldier would be found in just for a difference.  That's fine if it's what you want, because they are your miniatures, but I like my toy soldiers to look like soldiers, so I don't mind models in basic, but realistic poses.

Dust gives us soldiers with a few special pieces of equipment, and we can paint soldiers with varied fabric for uniforms.  I have my Axis light infantry in camo smocks, with the few that have helmet covers also in camo, and a few with other bits of camo.  It gives my army a level of consistency, while also allowing differentiation for special troops.

Having special characters in normal uniforms, with at most some extra equipment, makes them look like real soldiers that are part of an army.  If they field regular equipment, but better than usual, just swapping heads makes sense.

On the flip side, having special characters simply regular models with head swaps allows players who aren't in a position to get the special models, or who lose them, still able to field them effectively.  With Stefan a flamethrower wielding officer, any head swap and a copy of the game data lets a player field him.  You could without even doing the head swap, but it's good to let your opponent know where you special characters are.  Either do a head swap, or give them a specific camo pattern for their uniform.  Having more gear that is camo than other soldiers is an easy, yet historically accurate, way to model.

Having special characters fit in with other soldiers makes sense, because it also would make them less of a target for enemy snipers.  The Soviets used special markings on command tanks until they realized the Germans shot them first.  There's a reason soldiers are told not to salute officers when in combat areas.  special characters are special, butthey're also not stupid.  Some level of blending is why they grew to be powerful characters.






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