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Overwatch and Standing Still


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#1 netgeist

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 06:32 AM

I apologize if this has already been posted. If so, my search-fu wasn't strong enough to find it.

My question is...what if a character, we'll say Barry, is in overwatch and Eva starts her activation in line of site to him, on the same path. Eva decides not to move or act. What does that do to Barry's overwatch? If I'm reading the rules correctly, he can't take a shot - which seems silly.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

- netgeist



#2 Carlos Castaneda

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 07:22 AM

Barry looses his action like Eva.



#3 netgeist

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 07:44 AM

That's how it reads but it's kind of silly to think they just stare at one another.



#4 Otar

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 09:02 AM

 lol !!!

Nice catch, stupid and fun! You should be able to respond wherever you please when on overwatch, after all it cost you a CP and your movement!!!



#5 Katsuyori

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 09:05 AM

Hey, that´s super dramatic! Hero and villain staring at each other, no one dares to take the first move... Just imagine both pointing their weapons at each other!

 

Ok, it´s not realistic, not at all. maybe it is really stupid,  But that´s how it works. It´s a turn to turn board game simulating real time action that happens at the same time. Of course there are flaws in it.



#6 Carlos Castaneda

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 09:06 AM

I immagine they reach an impasse, or a situation like far west gun fighters: one-on-one, but none does the first move.

I think it isn't so silly. In a different way, how would you change that rule?

I wouldn't like if overwatch allowed a free (and first) attack.

 

Great answer Katsuyori, you post it while I write mine



#7 Otar

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 09:11 AM

Carlos Castaneda said:

I wouldn't like if overwatch allowed a free (and first) attack.

Overwatch is far from "free" its a first attack that cant be special like granades or anything but cost your movement and a CP so i think its ok to first attack for that price.



#8 netgeist

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 09:12 AM

True, I expect there to be flaws in games. That one just struck me as odd.

If trigger events include someone ending on a space on the same path, it would add more excitement. Instead of the dramatic stare down, there would the dramatic "Oh s---!" moment when someone sees the gun aiming their way and tries to beat feet out of the area.

- netgeist



#9 Otar

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 09:14 AM

 Maybe a rule like descent, you can interrupt anything you want at anytime you want but if you take damage, you lose your reserved action, in this case the overwatch, so this way you can have a penalty and cant stand in a place for ever just overwatching.



#10 Eiko

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 09:18 AM

I imagine that Eva has taken cover and just sits out  this round, while Barry scans then room.

 

Also:

If Barry has Line of Sight at Eva when she activates, he should have had LoS when he declared Overwatch. So if he actually wanted to shoot her, he shouldn't have declared Overwatch. 



#11 netgeist

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 09:26 AM

There are some situations where it would make sense for Barry to go into overwatch in that situation. For example, maybe the player wants to activate someone else (to take a med kit, for example) but doesn't want to lose a chance to shoot Eva while she's in his sites.

- netgeist



#12 Artemus Maximus

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 10:07 AM

That's called a Mexican Standoff

I don't think the game's implementation of this is silly at all - this really happens.

 

 



#13 Otar

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 10:38 AM

Artemus Maximus said:

That's called a Mexican Standoff

I don't think the game's implementation of this is silly at all - this really happens.

  

Not really, the person on overwatch should have the advantage and if he wanna use that, he just cant... And that's what i call silly...



#14 Carlos Castaneda

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 10:48 AM

Nobody controlls you while you're playing: if you don't like a rule, you are free to not use it or to change it.. it's simple.



#15 Artemus Maximus

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 10:52 AM

ah i see what you mean - because the OW character can't change the OW decision after the round starts, right? Yeah thats annoying, i agree...but i suppose if he really wanted to take the offensive and attack first instead of sitting back to respond to an action, that player could have tried to win initiative to go first and just attack w/o OW in the first place...

I guess i dont see OW as being an inherent advantage per se, but a choice to be passive/defensive rather than aggresive and the game makes you make that decision at the start of the round.

Than being said, i've been thinking about adding the option to remove OW on a character at the cost of 1 CP somehow after the round starts...



#16 Otar

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 11:29 AM

Carlos Castaneda said:

Nobody controlls you while you're playing: if you don't like a rule, you are free to not use it or to change it.. it's simple.

That was totally uncalled for, believe me i know i can do wharever i want with my game, i think we were just discussing a rule and giving out opinions. Wasn't meant to offend anyone or anything like that.

But about the rule, really? Im the only one who believes that at the cost of a CP and your move, its too much to ask that overwatch can be used at anytime?



#17 Carlos Castaneda

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 11:58 AM

Sorry, mine was only a piece of rhetorical advise 'cause I didn't understand well your intentions.

Artemus Maximus said what I think.

Finally, I like overwatch as it is.



#18 Katsuyori

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 12:33 PM

depending on the situation, the option to overwatch is quite strong, and can change the flow of the game entirely. The cost of 1 CP is fine, as it ensures initiative of attacking for the overwatching character, since he can not be attacked before he gets his attack. And even if the enemy decides that attacking him is to dangerous and gets "paralyzed" like Eva (in the example above) or just shuns of moving into a certain path, a great tactical advantage could have been won.

 

So, I can live with the rule, and sometimes gain nice opportunities out of it. 1 Point and 1 activation is nothing when I can sway the outcome of a battle with it. If you do not like overwatch and think that it is not worth the cost of 1 activation and 1 CP you still can save your point for a better use. It is up to you, as you  are the leader of your team. 



#19 pumpkin

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 08:55 PM

Yep, I agree.

 

Placing Overwatch in this situation simulates you pointing the gun at the opponent, whiile they still have theirs holstered, possibly even with a slight grin as you know you have the advantage.

Tactically it causes the opponent to freeze to the spot, momentarily, while you cover them with your gun.

You'd use it, rather than attacking directly, if there were multiple opponents possibly that you wanted to try and cover, or that you had another character that you wanted to activate first and didn't want to lose the opportunity to attack Eva.

If Eva doesn't move or act that round, then the moment of covering is over (i.e. the turn ends) and next round you choose to either continue covering her (set overwatch again), or open fire on her (act normally).

If you don't set overwatch AND lose initiative and Eva slips away, that just represents you momentarily taking your eye of her; perhaps an explosion from a grenade in another area of the map distracts you.

....We've all seen this in the movies, how more realistic can you get?!

 



#20 GrandClam

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 03:37 AM

Sure hope this hasn't been posted, anyway; the rules CLEARY state on PAGE 10, under ACTIVE CHARACTERS, that:

During an activation, a character performs one of the following::

-Move and then act.

-Act and then move.

-Move, then act, then move some more.

-Move without taking an action.

-Act without moving.

There is no "Stand still" action, unless trying to add holes into your game by using house rules- Eva Kramer MUST do one of those things and would then be targeted by Barry. The exception to this would be putting Eva on overwatch, in which I imagine it as a standoff as in any good western or the tabletop game Necromunda. Both characters are in a compromised position. It's basically the same thing as Eva Kramer's magic "stand still" action that I've never heard of, except she has to spend a CP as well so the team playing Barry doesn't get ripped off.

This is the same deal with fire grenades (I'm assuming you don't have the union troop pack yet). There is no "stand still" action to avoid damage by fire grenades, though you can repeatedly drop and pick up equipment without moving. (which is probably why they last for 3 turns: drop, pick up, drop- so you would at least have to waste another turn picking up what you dropped)






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