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#1 Doc9

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 09:16 AM

I really would like o know from someone who knows, why it is that the last time there was news about W:I it was on August 30th. But, in that time LotR has had 3 updates, CoC has had 3, and AGoT has had 2. Why is it that W:I always...ALWAYS gets the crappy end of the stick. What the hell?!?



#2 High Elves 77

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 09:26 AM

It certainly makes me wonder what the state of the game is at this point.  I just wonder how many more expansions they have in the works.  We haven't had a card of the week in ages!



#3 Kako K.

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 09:50 AM

I´ve been spamming these kinds of comments in the "card of the WEEK"-section for nearly half an year now. I think potential lord of the rings buyers should get the impression that ffg supports their game every week. This was one main reason why I started with WHI. My feeling is that now a lot of players have spend money on that game and there wont be that much new buyers while the best time for LotR still lies ahead. I wonder when they start switching their full focus from LotR to Starwars. Probably when I´m totally into LotR ;)

I mean, why call the news "card of the week" if theres no such thing like "of the week". I dont believe any player in this forum enjoys reading about distant tourneys as much as a new card or a new theme for upcoming cards. FFG please get back to the good work you did during the first circles and expansions. You still got fans. Dont make them leave!!!



#4 Doc9

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 10:47 AM

AGoT just got another update today...geeesh.



#5 HappyDD

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 10:56 AM

When I first got into LCGs about a year ago I picked up CoC and WHI at the same time. Back then it seemed like WHI was getting updates like crazy while CoC was getting neglected. I bet it's just a cyclical thing, they push product on the main page when they have to and/or they have new stuff. I'm sure they'll be a flood of info soon. But ya, they could have not called it "card of the week" and not gotten all of our hopes up.



#6 cuttingrage

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 10:59 AM

Hear, Hear!

I am starting to get sick and tired of checking everyday just to see news about WHI and getting nothing.



#7 Rave

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 11:22 AM

I'm not really all that surprised.  LOTR is new, AGOT just had a huge resurgence, and nothing is really going on in the Warhammer Fantasy world. (right?)

Plus our board is formal petition central.  If I was FFG I would probably ignore us too.



#8 Curator

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 11:45 PM

First off as long as they complete this cycle I am fine with the game ending. They got my checklist completed.

Khorne has its bloodletters and thirster.

Nurgle still needs Plague Bearers. No doubt this will be remedied this month with the chaos themed BP.

Tzeetch got its Horrors, Screamers, Flamers, and Changer of Ways

Keeper of Secrets just needs its mounted units.

Wood elves were added

Lizardmen were added

Skaven were added

Most of the table top equivalents for each race are in the game and I have no doubt all will be in by the end of this cycle. 

 So really, as a long time Warhammer fan, I am totally fine using what was released to substitute the over priced (imo) table top game.

All I ask is that FFG gives a month warning before taking down the forums if they need to at all. 

_______________________________________________________________________________________

 

To the fans. 

Be honest, most of you never thought this game was going to be anything more than a substitute for the tabletop. Unlike Lovecraftian mythos, Game of Thrones, or Lord of the Rings, Warhammer only has so much material FFG can draw from before they start to cross the line of risking the breakage of the lore and fluff. 

The game never got the multiplayer  rules promised. Or the draft rules updated to work with the expansions. The tourney's were mostly fan organized. 

I never wanted this game to be anything more than what it is. A substitute for the expensive minis. Eric made an amazing product and FFG's art team brought the warhammer fantasy universe to light. To which I am thankful and I hope I am not the only one in this boat.

If they really wanted to make this game POP, they would have given each faction a theme to chase. 

For example

Dark elves should have had way more scouts and hand removal cards. For a nice hand control deck. A dark magic based deck.
A deck based around the sacrifices to gain bonuses and also more cards that steal opponents forces for the sacrifices. A witch deck.
A beast based deck that works around the weaker units biding time for the beast masters to bring in the creatures.

Each chaos god should have had a theme to base decks around. 

Goblins should have been empowered by orcs with a style like a green deck in Magic.
Orcs should have had a focus on development destruction to counter their long time rival dwarves strategy.

Dwarves could have had rune based decks. Decks based on developments and engineering. Or grudge themed decks.

etc etc. 

Instead, most of the factions only rely on a single playstyle. Note I said most. And it didn't  help that the traits on many cards didn't make sense. Many knights are not given knight trait and even more cavalry are missing the cavalry trait.

Of course that is just my humble opinion and I welcome others to counter mine with their own. Just please respect it as I will with yours.



#9 Titan

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 02:44 AM

I remember disagreeing with Curator on this subject not too long ago. These days, it seems like his wisdom is going to trump mine. The game does seem to be losing steam. The forums have been slow for a long time, but recently they are even slower. There seems to be a remarkable lack of enthusiasm currently for this game and sadly, there really aren't many reasons to post. Lack of updates, many disgruntled players and ex-players. Many of the topics are complaints in one way or another. That hints at a large undercurrent of dissatisfaction with the game and the way it is being handled. FFG is going to have to look hard at what's going on here and find ways to spice things or it may all blow up.



#10 Mallumo

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 03:48 AM

Curator said:

Be honest, most of you never thought this game was going to be anything more than a substitute for the tabletop. Unlike Lovecraftian mythos, Game of Thrones, or Lord of the Rings, Warhammer only has so much material FFG can draw from before they start to cross the line of risking the breakage of the lore and fluff. 

 

While I too would appreciate more support (news etc.) from FFG, I think the picture is being painted way too black.

 

I've never played the tabletop, I don't care for it, and I certainly don't need a substitute for it, nor do I think W:I can function as such for anyone, the games are way too different. I like the setting, but I wouldn't be playing W:I if it weren't a damn good game, which it is. Most of the people I got interested in it share my indifference to the tabletop. As well as the indifference to whether the fluff is based on some previous other product. I don't care if some unit can be bought as a miniature for the tabletop or has been mentioned in a novel, or is a new creation. As long as it fits, it doesn't matter. I assume the majority of Invasion players aren't tabletop or roleplaying refugees looking for a substitute. If there is a problem with W:I, I hardly think this is it.

 

We certainly do have to accept that Game of Thrones is more popular and successful, and as long as that is the case, it receives more attention. Big deal. Monopoly is even more popular and successful. Neither should diminish our enjoyment of Invasion, nor does it mean Invasion isn't working financially for FFG and in danger of being canceled. Invasion is a niche product. That won't change. Doesn't matter as long as it does well in its niche.

 

There's not much activity here on the forums, true, but as far as I can tell, it's always been like that. Doesn't mean that a) people aren't active on other forums about the game, and more importantly, b) aren't playing a lot and buying the products. I myself have been less active here of late because my playing circle increased. If you want to talk about substitutes, discussing the game online can certainly be one for playing the game. When I am playing more often, and discussing the game more often in RL, I have less of a need to talk about it here. Not to mention that for many people, if they do want to discuss a game online, the official forum isn't the first place they think of. They turn to BGG, or if they aren't American, to local online forums. If they even feel a need to discuss it online at all.

 

It's also quite natural that people mostly speak up when they want to complain about something. No one comes here to tell us he's happy with the game and playing it a lot. Those people just play it. We get the ones that are unhappy or bitter, like f7eleven, and in a not very active community, they stick out even more. This does not mean they are representative, and it doesn't mean the game is losing steam. Are you playing it? Are you enjoying it? Has FFG announced they'll stop releasing new products? That's what matters. What never matters is a few individuals complaining online.



#11 rzarectz

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 07:20 AM

Whats with all the doom and gloom?!? You emos should all be on FOX news preaching about the dire shape of the world economy as well.  They've already promised another cycle that will take us into 2012, a cycle that was announced on schedule such that it will continue without significant delay now that Morrslieb is finished. If you remember in January before Morrslieb started and Legends was announced, there was a lull on the website back then as well,  and you guys were all saying the same damned thing you are now.  Then all of a sudden we were getting multiple posts a week with tons of Legend spoilers etc.  The only thing theyve really let up on at all are those card of the week posts, and really what's so special about those card of the week posts??   

The thing I'd really like to see FFG do with Invasion is more product releases and promotions designed for new players, like race specific starter packs, etc etc its all been said before.  The games not going anywhere, rest easy..



#12 Doc9

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 07:32 AM

Listen up you's all, I never said anything about doom and gloom. That's your own knee jerk interpretation of my original post. I simply questioned why I wasn't getting the same updates for my favorite game that others are getting for theirs. Read before you write. unless of course you weren't responding to the original post. If that's the case...***** away.



#13 SeanXor

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 08:14 AM

I do wish they would give more regular updates as well. 

 

However, I do not think think this game is on its way out anytime soon.  For some evidence to point to the game's success, take a look at how many plays have been recorded for the LCGs this month on the popular website boardgamegeek.com:

Lord of the Rings: 866

Warhammer: Invasion:  401

A Game of Thrones:  191

Call of Cthulhu:    48

 

While I know this does not prove anything really because there are a lot of variables, it does show there are plenty of people playing the game compared to the other LCGs, and hopefully that translates to sells, which means support will continue. 



#14 Curator

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 10:35 AM

Doc9 said:

Listen up you's all, I never said anything about doom and gloom. That's your own knee jerk interpretation of my original post. I simply questioned why I wasn't getting the same updates for my favorite game that others are getting for theirs. Read before you write. unless of course you weren't responding to the original post. If that's the case...***** away.



Hard to listen when no sound is produced 

Joking aside. I honestly want this product line to end. I already treat it like a board game. If more expansions come I have no complaints, but if it ends I am satisfied with where it has concluded.

Right now the World of Warcraft TCG seems to be the best card game in my opinion. Cryptizoic has handled the IP much better than UDE ever did. The mechanics are still blending smoothly and the crowd it attracts are the ex magic players (in other words less serious) that tend to be very friendly. The art is top notch too, but Warhammer Invasion trumps all in the art department. 

Unlike with the abrupt ending to the Warcraft license and the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying 2nd Ed line, I don't see this game just ending out of no where. If FFG has already sent or paid the artist for the cycle taking place after the Capital Cycle then we will see those cards on our tables next year. If they have not hired artist or booked a date for the printers then it is never too late for them to cancel the production.

However, many of you bring up a great point. 

No single group is to blame for this. FFG promised to do more than they did with this games tourney support. As a result competitive card gamers fell out. Those that remained acted like the alphas and so the infighting started. Now, even with all that left in the past, FFG still visits the forums and sees petitions.

I will take a wild guess and try to predict the situation.

Kragg and most of the competitive players have dropped out of the game. The game is too difficult/imposing for a newcomer to feel a desire to purchase. And due to the switching around of lead designer the game is just a collage of unfinished concepts.

To get the competitive crowd back FFG would have to buckle down and really cater to their needs for tourney prizes. Unfortunately they are very busy with other products.

To make the game easier for casual players to get into FFG feels they need to produce faction boxes like Game of Thrones. They no W:I sales numbers and I am guessing they would be taking to much of a gamble to try to start that now.

The lack of focus I believe will be fixed after the Capital Cycle based on the few previews we have seen. 

Overall the fans have the fate of this game in their hands. These petitions, the infighting, and the demands for errata need to stop. I don't blame FFG for remaining silent. The fact that they have gone through so many designers for this game tells me they are trying to just please the fans at this point, but are not sure how to fix the issues. As a designer I would be very quiet if I got all these petitions and demands thrown at me when all I wanted to do is make a good product, and thought I had.

I wouldn't panic unil we are into the next cycle, and see no previews, if you feel like panicing. At this point previews open the gates for more criticisms. The newest GTM didn't have any previews either.



#15 Curator

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 10:40 AM

Mallumo said:

Curator said:

 

Be honest, most of you never thought this game was going to be anything more than a substitute for the tabletop. Unlike Lovecraftian mythos, Game of Thrones, or Lord of the Rings, Warhammer only has so much material FFG can draw from before they start to cross the line of risking the breakage of the lore and fluff. 

 

 

 

While I too would appreciate more support (news etc.) from FFG, I think the picture is being painted way too black.

 

I've never played the tabletop, I don't care for it, and I certainly don't need a substitute for it, nor do I think W:I can function as such for anyone, the games are way too different. I like the setting, but I wouldn't be playing W:I if it weren't a damn good game, which it is. Most of the people I got interested in it share my indifference to the tabletop. As well as the indifference to whether the fluff is based on some previous other product. I don't care if some unit can be bought as a miniature for the tabletop or has been mentioned in a novel, or is a new creation. As long as it fits, it doesn't matter. I assume the majority of Invasion players aren't tabletop or roleplaying refugees looking for a substitute. If there is a problem with W:I, I hardly think this is it.

 

We certainly do have to accept that Game of Thrones is more popular and successful, and as long as that is the case, it receives more attention. Big deal. Monopoly is even more popular and successful. Neither should diminish our enjoyment of Invasion, nor does it mean Invasion isn't working financially for FFG and in danger of being canceled. Invasion is a niche product. That won't change. Doesn't matter as long as it does well in its niche.

 

There's not much activity here on the forums, true, but as far as I can tell, it's always been like that. Doesn't mean that a) people aren't active on other forums about the game, and more importantly, b) aren't playing a lot and buying the products. I myself have been less active here of late because my playing circle increased. If you want to talk about substitutes, discussing the game online can certainly be one for playing the game. When I am playing more often, and discussing the game more often in RL, I have less of a need to talk about it here. Not to mention that for many people, if they do want to discuss a game online, the official forum isn't the first place they think of. They turn to BGG, or if they aren't American, to local online forums. If they even feel a need to discuss it online at all.

 

It's also quite natural that people mostly speak up when they want to complain about something. No one comes here to tell us he's happy with the game and playing it a lot. Those people just play it. We get the ones that are unhappy or bitter, like f7eleven, and in a not very active community, they stick out even more. This does not mean they are representative, and it doesn't mean the game is losing steam. Are you playing it? Are you enjoying it? Has FFG announced they'll stop releasing new products? That's what matters. What never matters is a few individuals complaining online.



You have convinced me to reevaluate my opinion. I stand corrected.

Fair warning to your last point, FFG NEVER has nor will they tell you the state of a game. They HAVE never told customers when the end of a product line is. This would be poor marketing, because you never know when a surge can arise. Do not expect FFG to say "So and so will be the last of the Warhammer Invasion product line". 



#16 rzarectz

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 11:33 AM

Doc9 said:

Listen up you's all, I never said anything about doom and gloom. That's your own knee jerk interpretation of my original post. I simply questioned why I wasn't getting the same updates for my favorite game that others are getting for theirs. Read before you write. unless of course you weren't responding to the original post. If that's the case...***** away.

Take a good read at both our posts again and tell me which one of us is bitching. ..Not that there's anything wrong with that, its our god given right to ***** about the games we buy into.  I do it myself frequently, sometimes its good fun!  I was simply trying to suggest this game is not is such dire straights as we think.



#17 Doc9

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 11:54 AM

rzarectz said:

Whats with all the doom and gloom?!? You emos... . 

 

I was making a comment about the games updates. You were making a comment about others posting on this thread. There's a difference.



#18 Titan

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 01:11 PM

Mallumo's comment about people thinking of other places first rather than the official site to discuss a game left me scratching my head. Really? Really? Not saying he is wrong, we just got a good example of this at the LOTR forums, but I find that perplexing, and honestly, it bothers me that people would do this.  

Both sides have good arguments here. I don't think it can be said that the game is dying. But from my observations of these forums,(and after what Mallumo said, I might be missing the greater picture) it seems that there is far less enthusiasm and far more disgruntled players here than when I first joined the game. That's just my observation. It is also puzzling that updates have been fewer and far between lately. Maybe FFG has lot on their plate, but sometimes perception becomes reality. If it seems like the game is being paid less attention to than others, it will discourage players. Maybe the next cycle will do some remedying of the situation, but it has to start with FFG generating and maintaining a bit more buzz about it and bringing it to the players.



#19 Kako K.

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 08:02 PM

I wonder why this thread turned into a flaming-one so quick. Here a few players just complained about the lack of previews. I wonder how anyone of you "fans" could decline news!?!? This is just the same reaction like everywhere on the web, where intolerant people cant stand other peoples point of views. This is just a discussion. Write down your opinion and wait for the others´to reply. Theres no need to curse and blame others for beeing "emo" or "formal petitioning". I wonder who is blocking forumactivity here.



#20 Doc9

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 10:38 AM

CoC has another update. Still waiting fot W:I updates. Damn them. DAMN THEM!






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