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Does the Movement Phase end immediately after Combat? +other stuff


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#1 ninniach

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 01:58 PM

Hi,

I'm regularly visiting this forum and I already got a lot of answers, so thanks for that. But I finally have some questions where I need your help.

 

1. Does the Movement Phase end immediately after Combat?

It's clear that your movement ends and that you don't have any movement points left for tomes or so. But what about casting a Spell, which can only be casted during Movement Phase? Can they still be used after combat?

just one more question, which isn't worth a whole new thread:

2. When a Spell says "Cast and Discard..." (like Bless), does this mean that I have to discard it wheter the Spell check was succesful or not, or do I only have to discard it if it was succesful.

 

What I also noticed when I played Daisy for the first time, is that Arcane Insight is just too strong for her. I chose it after reading Livre d'Ivon, and after a few turns of collecting tomes (a bit lucky though) I could look at and rearrange the top 3 mythos cards EVERY turn, for free. This actually changed the whole character of the game, since there were no surprises in the Mythos phase, and the game got much more strategic and planned. Somehow took the thrill. I know that Daisy is generally very strong, but since the combat spells got highly diluted (I haven't seen any combat spells from the extensions that I would actually use, just really bad in my opinion) it's not that easy to fight with, especially against more than one monster. So she was kind of balanced, except for this Arcane Insight.

 

And is there any way to restrict the forum search to the arkham forum? It's really hard to find something when I get results for all the FFG forums.

 

Thanks!



#2 ColtsFan76

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 02:55 PM

1. Does the Movement Phase end immediately after Combat?

Movement ends in one of three ways. 

  • You run out of movement points. 
  • You voluntarily enter combat with a monster - even if you win
  • You attempt to evade a monster and fail - thus entering into combat involuntarily

If you don't cast a spell before movement ends, you lost the opportunity to cast it this turn.

2. When a Spell says "Cast and Discard..." (like Bless), does this mean that I have to discard it wheter the Spell check was succesful or not, or do I only have to discard it if it was succesful.

Yes.  Cast and discard would mean you discard it whether it works or not. 

 

3. And is there any way to restrict the forum search to the arkham forum? It's really hard to find something when I get results for all the FFG forums.

Unfortunately no.  Maybe someday.



#3 cim

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 09:57 PM

ninniach said:

What I also noticed when I played Daisy for the first time, is that Arcane Insight is just too strong for her. I chose it after reading Livre d'Ivon, and after a few turns of collecting tomes (a bit lucky though) I could look at and rearrange the top 3 mythos cards EVERY turn, for free. This actually changed the whole character of the game, since there were no surprises in the Mythos phase, and the game got much more strategic and planned.

Yes, it's a ridiculously good combination (especially if Kate is on the team). Daisy+Arcane Insight was how we got our first (and so far only) victory by closing gates, although we'd been close to it before without her. (Unsurprisingly, of the 4 summer league scenarios where this combination could be used, three of them remove Arcane Insight from the decks!)



#4 Tibs

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 03:35 AM

ColtsFan76 said:

Movement ends in one of three ways. 

  • You run out of movement points. 
  • You voluntarily enter combat with a monster - even if you win
  • You attempt to evade a monster and fail - thus entering into combat involuntarily

If you don't cast a spell before movement ends, you lost the opportunity to cast it this turn.

Is this true? I know that when you enter combat, you lose the rest of your movement points, but does that mean the phase is over?
That is, if you win the combat and there are clues on your location, can't you still take them?
If you can take the clues, doesn't that mean that the movement phase is still in effect, so couldn't you still cast movement spells?



#5 ninniach

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 04:35 AM

And the question is if the "Movement Phase" ends as soon as "Movement" ends. I'm not so sure about that. You can also trade items after your movement ends (no movement points left), but it's still in your movement phase.



#6 Dam

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 05:59 AM

Tibs said:

Is this true? I know that when you enter combat, you lose the rest of your movement points, but does that mean the phase is over?
That is, if you win the combat and there are clues on your location, can't you still take them?
If you can take the clues, doesn't that mean that the movement phase is still in effect, so couldn't you still cast movement spells?

I seem to recall some ruling that if monster and Clue share a spot, monster is dealt with first, before Clue picking.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#7 theMage

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 06:00 AM

I can't find a reference to the movement phase ending when you run out of MP.  It seems that you could continue to perform actions that do not require MPs to activate.  This also leads to a situation where you cannot do anything other than move during Phase II if you are in an Outer World as you are in the 0 MP situation to start (barring the obvious application of the special movement rules).



#8 Gamemaster

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 06:03 AM

ColtsFan76 said:

2. When a Spell says "Cast and Discard..." (like Bless), does this mean that I have to discard it wheter the Spell check was succesful or not, or do I only have to discard it if it was succesful.

Yes.  Cast and discard would mean you discard it whether it works or not. 

This is not true.  A spell is always exhausted when attempting to cast it.  If the spell is successfully cast, then you discard the spell.  Note that some spells just remain exhausted, even if successfully cast.



#9 Dam

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 06:11 AM

I found 5 Spells that don't have "cast and exhaust" in their description (any in KH?):

Astral Travel

Bless

Bind Monster

Call Ancient One

Greater Banishment

Given what those 5 spells do (maybe discount Astral Travel, doesn't seem that powerful compared to the others), I'm inclined to think they were not misworded, but were meant to be "cast and discard", just gotta make sure you manage to cast them. Bind Monster is the only one from base-AH.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#10 Frank

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 09:39 PM

theMage said:

I can't find a reference to the movement phase ending when you run out of MP.  It seems that you could continue to perform actions that do not require MPs to activate.  This also leads to a situation where you cannot do anything other than move during Phase II if you are in an Outer World as you are in the 0 MP situation to start (barring the obvious application of the special movement rules).

 

Ending your movement very specifically does not end your Movement Phase, and you can still cast spells that can only be cast during the movement phase. Indeed, I turn your attention to Vision Quest, a spell that can only be cast at that time:

www.arkhamhorrorwiki.com/Vision_Quest

 

-Frank



#11 ColtsFan76

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 11:59 AM

Who the heck broke into my account and typed that crap above!!!

Wow!  Saturday was a super long day after spending my "weekend off" at the office.  Remind me not to answer questions in that state of mind ever again.

1. Yeah, that got a bit messy. I responded based on what ended movement and not the phase since I misread the question.  And then I just kept talking and tied it back up to the phase.  Movement ends based on those three conditions.   The movement phase keeps going until you declare it over.  Some movement spells give you extra movement, some allow you to pick up extra clues.  So these are clearly things you can keep doing after you spent your movement points.

2. It has been clarified that ALL spells, whether stated on the card or not, must be exhausted in order to attempt to cast it.  These "cast and discard" spells are meant to be discarded only if you successfully cast them.  If you fail, they remain exhausted and in your possession.

3.  As far as I know, I got this one right buty I am beginning to doubt that too.  So 1 for 3.  Yeah me.  Sorry for the confusion. I would edit the post if I could. So it will sit for eternity mocking me.
 

Time to get some rest....

 



#12 Tibs

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 01:00 PM

I wish you were wrong about 3. These forums are so annoying.

ColtsFan76 said:

Who the heck broke into my account and typed that crap above!!!

Well played.



#13 johnwatersfan

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 01:10 PM

I'm sorry.

Where does it say that all spells are exhausted and they are only discarded if the check is made?



#14 ColtsFan76

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 04:29 PM

johnwatersfan said:

I'm sorry.

Where does it say that all spells are exhausted and they are only discarded if the check is made?

It was a clarification by Kevin.  A quick search can't turn it up on the previous forums.  I am afraid it may be lost on the forum prior to that one.



#15 MrsGamura

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 04:48 PM

You kill a Tcho-Tcho and get Ancient Tome ...you have 3 movement point left so you use it and draw...Summon Monster, that you cast and then...you draw Mi-Go...etc etc  



#16 ninniach

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 09:45 PM

Thanks a lot for your answers, that's how we actually played it. ColtsFan confused me a little at the beginning, especially because you are kind of a rulemaster here.  But regarding the huge amount of rule questions that you are answering here, I can totally understand if you don't read them that properly

Ok, so the Movement Phase doesn't end after Combat, and you only have to discard those spells if you cast them succesfully. And the forum obviously sucks! Which is bad, since this community would absolutely deserve a better one.

 

Just to make that clear:

 

 

MrsGamura said:

You kill a Tcho-Tcho and get Ancient Tome ...you have 3 movement point left so you use it and draw...Summon Monster, that you cast and then...you draw Mi-Go...etc etc  

 

I always thought that you lose your Movement points as soon as you enter combat. Or can you still use your Movement points for tomes, but nor for actual movement? or was that just a joke?

 

Anyway, thanks again!



#17 Frank

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Posted 26 January 2009 - 10:47 PM

ninniach said:

 

 

I always thought that you lose your Movement points as soon as you enter combat. Or can you still use your Movement points for tomes, but nor for actual movement? or was that just a joke?

 

Anyway, thanks again!

Yes, if you fight or fail to evade a monster, you lose all your movement points. However you don't have to evade or fight until you declare the end of your movement or attempt to leave the area. So you can move into an area with a monster, read a book, and then fight.

 

-Frank



#18 ColtsFan76

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 12:20 AM

ninniach said:

I always thought that you lose your Movement points as soon as you enter combat. Or can you still use your Movement points for tomes, but nor for actual movement? or was that just a joke?

Maybe a joke, maybe not.  As soon as you enter combat or fail an evade, your movement points are gone.  That includes moving further or reading tomes.  So if you want to read and feel you can't get by your monster, then read first while you still have the points.






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