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#1 istoptime

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 07:18 AM

Regarding the Mists of Zanaga expansion.

The villages allow you to make a market step and then use your remaining movement dice and then have an adventure step. However since market step is supposed to take place after both movement and adventure steps it brings up a few questions.

If on my turn I complete a ritual that summons the lost city to me can I then take a market step since that happens after the adventure step?

Often the lost city will be on a space that has an adventure jewel. This question regards if I begin on my turn on a space that has both the lost city and an adventure jewel con it. Can I roll movement dice, but stay on the space and take an adventure with the jewel. Then take a market step in the lost city, and under the wording of the market step in a native village says "After Heroes complete a Market step in a native village, they may continue their Movement step with any of their remaining movement dice that have not yet been spent. After Heroes finish moving, they proceed to their Adventure step following the normal rules.", so could I then move and have another adventure?

You can argue that the movement step has already passed but villages have special rules and you must follow them, otherwise you wouldn't be able to take a market step before moving and before adventure step anyway.



#2 The_Warlock

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 09:26 PM

istoptime said:

Regarding the Mists of Zanaga expansion.

The villages allow you to make a market step and then use your remaining movement dice and then have an adventure step. However since market step is supposed to take place after both movement and adventure steps it brings up a few questions.

If on my turn I complete a ritual that summons the lost city to me can I then take a market step since that happens after the adventure step?

Often the lost city will be on a space that has an adventure jewel. This question regards if I begin on my turn on a space that has both the lost city and an adventure jewel con it. Can I roll movement dice, but stay on the space and take an adventure with the jewel. Then take a market step in the lost city, and under the wording of the market step in a native village says "After Heroes complete a Market step in a native village, they may continue their Movement step with any of their remaining movement dice that have not yet been spent. After Heroes finish moving, they proceed to their Adventure step following the normal rules.", so could I then move and have another adventure?

You can argue that the movement step has already passed but villages have special rules and you must follow them, otherwise you wouldn't be able to take a market step before moving and before adventure step anyway.

It happens often in Mists of Zanaga that the Lost City is placed on a space with an adventure jewel on it. It would have been better if this was avoided as in Sands of Al-Kalim, where the Lost Cities appeared only on spaces without jewels and other towns. However, I think you're reading the rules for the Native Village beyond what's written.

Native Villages
(...)
After Heroes complete a Market step in a native
village, they may continue their Movement step
with any of their remaining movement dice that have not yet
been spent. After Heroes finish moving, they proceed to their
Adventure step following the normal rules.


Heroes may only take one Market step during their turn. If a
Hero has already taken a Market step and then enters another
town during his continued Movement step, he must proceed
directly to the Experience step.

This text doesn't allow you to take a Market Step after the Adventure Step, or to move after the Adventure Step. You may argue that in this particular situation you end Movement on a space with both a jewel and a town, but if your movement has "ended" the Movement Step has ended. This is tricky, but the important thing to understand is the triggering condition of Step 3: Adventure Step and Step 4: Market Step according to the basic Rules: end of Movement Step (= no further movement allowed)

Native Villages break the rules allowing the Hero to move, take a Market Step, continue movement and, if able, take an Adventure Step. Any situation that gets out of this flow is not allowed. They put a clear sentence to negate double Market Steps, but this Lost City combo escaped. Designers thought that in no case an Adventure Step could be taken ending Movement on a Native Village.

In your example, your Hero does:

Step 1: Refresh

Step 2: Movement (dice are rolled but not used)

Step 3: Adventure

Step 4: Market, which is allowed not because the Lost City has the Native Village trait, but because in this very strange situation you ended movement in a Town Space which had a jewel as well.

Your Movement Step has ended when you chose to take an Adventure step... you can't continue movement because it has ended.

I usually play that when the Lost City appears, it goes over the Adventure jewel and the space is turned into a proper Town space, in order to avoid any possible arguments or loopholes. But I think it's right to consider the Native Village like a Town that allows to resume the Movement Step after taking a Market Step and nothing more. It doesn't change the order of other Steps, most notably the Adventure Step.



#3 Dam

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 11:08 PM

The_Warlock said:

It happens often in Mists of Zanaga that the Lost City is placed on a space with an adventure jewel on it. It would have been better if this was avoided as in Sands of Al-Kalim, where the Lost Cities appeared only on spaces without jewels and other towns.

Lost Cities in SoAK can appear on any non-town space as I understand it (even ones with jewels on them). In a jewel space you get the option between Adventure and Story Steps, if you do a Story Step and don't draw a LQ, you roll a die, which could pop a LC into the space.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#4 The_Warlock

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 01:03 AM

Dam said:

 

The_Warlock said:

 

It happens often in Mists of Zanaga that the Lost City is placed on a space with an adventure jewel on it. It would have been better if this was avoided as in Sands of Al-Kalim, where the Lost Cities appeared only on spaces without jewels and other towns.

 

Lost Cities in SoAK can appear on any non-town space as I understand it (even ones with jewels on them). In a jewel space you get the option between Adventure and Story Steps, if you do a Story Step and don't draw a LQ, you roll a die, which could pop a LC into the space.

 

 

Correct, this is an option you have and the same problem may occur. But in SoAK you:

1) have to choose to roll the Story Die instead of facing a Challenge (which is a rare situation in a land where moving is quite difficult)

2) you have to roll mountain symbol

3) You have to defeat the Creatures that stir if you're travelling by night

Only then, you may explore the Bazaar of the Lost City

I think that the 1) 2) 3) combination is less likely to happen than the Lost City appearances in MoZ. Moreover, the Native Village dynamics create some problems in interpretation, while in SoAK everything looks fine to me. If you choose to stay there next turn, you may face the Challenge and if you win, explore the Bazaar (because you ended movement on a space with both Town and Adventure jewel).

I'd rather cover the jewel with the City tile and make it unaccessible until the City disappears (SoAK) or moves (MoZ). It just seems the right thing to do (no adventures in cities).



#5 Jeanmiwan

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 09:56 PM

I'm still confused...

Am I permitted to take a marked step in the lost city if it appears after the adventure step ?

Runebound base rules state that I can take a market step if I ended my movement step in a city... that is not the case if the Lost City appears upon completion of a ritual.

What hurts me is : during the first turn of a 6-player game, the Lost City appeared, then moved twice without any hero being allowed to take a market step in it. No need to tell it's been a bit frustrating to two players, as soon as the beginning of the game.

 

So I'd rather allow to take a market step in the Lost City as soon at it appears or is moved to a hero's place.

According to "Mists of Zanaga" special rules, I'd rather allow to use non-used movement steps after that, too.

But as clearly stated, no hero would ever take two adventure steps in one game round.



#6 The_Warlock

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 05:30 AM

Jeanmiwan said:

I'm still confused...

Am I permitted to take a marked step in the lost city if it appears after the adventure step ?

Runebound base rules state that I can take a market step if I ended my movement step in a city... that is not the case if the Lost City appears upon completion of a ritual.

What hurts me is : during the first turn of a 6-player game, the Lost City appeared, then moved twice without any hero being allowed to take a market step in it. No need to tell it's been a bit frustrating to two players, as soon as the beginning of the game.

 

So I'd rather allow to take a market step in the Lost City as soon at it appears or is moved to a hero's place.

According to "Mists of Zanaga" special rules, I'd rather allow to use non-used movement steps after that, too.

But as clearly stated, no hero would ever take two adventure steps in one game round.

Well, better not to tweak the rules because of a particular game situation like the Lost City being moved twice in a single round. As discussed before, you're not allowed to take a Market Step after the Adventure Step; moveover, if you allow to move after that, players may reach another jewel and then you're claiming that it's not correct to take two adventure steps in a single turn. This is true, but you've already permitted something that is not allowed by the rules.

To take a Market Step in the Lost City, the tile shall remain in your space until the beginning of your next turn. Then you can start movement, do the Market Step, finish movement and possibly take an Adventure Step (Native Village special rule).

I know this is less likely to happen in a 6-player game, but I also know that Runebound is not a game suitable for 6 players, no matter what's written on the box. If you and your fellow gamers can endure a 6-player game, you shouldn't be frustrated by a fleeting Lost City. There are lots of things that are much more frustrating, e.g. the downtime.

 






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