Jump to content



Photo

Three Pegasus (New Caprica) Questions


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 Anacreon

Anacreon

    Member

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 05 September 2011 - 06:31 PM

In order to mix things up, our group decided to give New Caprica a second chance.  We ended up with a few questions that we did not see answered in the FAQ.  What do you think?

1. When you jump to the seventh distance and arrive at New Cap, what do you do if the Destination card would otherwise bring cylon baseships/civilian ships out onto the board upon immediate return into space?  I mean, you pretty much *can't* put them down.  That's not how New Caprica works.  But then, the effect is that this is just a gimme for the humans.  In our case, three distance spaces without significant consequences.  We decided that, in this case, we'd house rule it that that distance card was discarded and a new one drawn as one of the two options.  Thoughts?

2. On New Caprica, when the Galactica comes back, the rules say humans discard a card to return to the ships.  But on the New Cap board, it says if you use an action on the Shipyard location to evacuate a civilian ship, you may then return to Galactica.  One player argued that then the return to Galactica in this case was free; another argued the rules simply said it costs a card to travel.  Which is it? 

3. Once back aboard the cylon locations from NC, a revealed cylon went to "Caprica" and drew two crises cards and chose one that had an activate occupation forces icon in the bottom left corner.  On the cylon location, it clearly says cylon *ship* activation is to be ignored when the cylon chooses the crisis.  However, it does not say anything about occupation forces - that is, the centurions on NC heading toward the shipyards to destroy civilian ships on the ground.  Do the occupation forces activate?   

Thanks, all!



#2 Cifer

Cifer

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,795 posts

Posted 05 September 2011 - 08:51 PM

 3. Once back aboard the cylon locations from NC, a revealed cylon went to "Caprica" and drew two crises cards and chose one that had an activate occupation forces icon in the bottom left corner. On the cylon location, it clearly says cylon *ship* activation is to be ignored when the cylon chooses the crisis. However, it does not say anything about occupation forces - that is, the centurions on NC heading toward the shipyards to destroy civilian ships on the ground. Do the occupation forces activate?

Doesn't the game go back to standard crises (rather than the Caprica ones) when Galactica returns?



#3 Anacreon

Anacreon

    Member

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 06 September 2011 - 01:14 AM

Nope.  Standard crises go back to the box.  The NC crises are necessary for evacuation icons to get the ships off the planet.



#4 Skowza

Skowza

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,131 posts

Posted 06 September 2011 - 11:23 AM

Anacreon said:

1. When you jump to the seventh distance and arrive at New Cap, what do you do if the Destination card would otherwise bring cylon baseships/civilian ships out onto the board upon immediate return into space?  I mean, you pretty much *can't* put them down.  That's not how New Caprica works.  But then, the effect is that this is just a gimme for the humans.  In our case, three distance spaces without significant consequences.  We decided that, in this case, we'd house rule it that that distance card was discarded and a new one drawn as one of the two options.  Thoughts?

From the Pegasus Rules, pg 13:

2. Main Game Board: Leave any centurion tokens on the
Boarding Party track in their current position, as well as
any Cylon ships placed in a space area by the Destination
Card
. These will remain in place and are unaffected by any
game mechanic until Galactica returns to orbit.

 Anacreon said:


2. On New Caprica, when the Galactica comes back, the rules say humans discard a card to return to the ships. But on the New Cap board, it says if you use an action on the Shipyard location to evacuate a civilian ship, you may then return to Galactica. One player argued that then the return to Galactica in this case was free; another argued the rules simply said it costs a card to travel. Which is it?

 

We've always played that it is a free ride, mostly based "unless a card says otherwise" logic from playing way too many board games... i.e. the board rule supersedes the rulebook in all cases.  Also, a Human player isn't "moving" to Galactica; they already used or skipped their movement step for the turn, and the discard should only be if they wish to move. 
I can make a really technical and stupid argument that, according to Core Rules, when the fleet jumps, all pilots in space areas are returned to the board... the rules also state if a pilot wishes to return to the main board from space he or she must discard a card to do so.  No one plays that when the fleet jumps, all pilots are removed from space areas and forced to discard a card to be placed back on Galactica, therefore I think Humans shouldn't have to pay a card to go back to Galactica when evacuating a civilian ship.  I don't know how much water that argument holds, but I'll throw it out there.  
The technical answer may be in the wording of the NC location -  does the board specifically use the word "move" or does it say something like return to Galactica?  Even if it does say "move" on the board, I still stand by the idea that the player doesn't have to discard a card.

 

Anacreon said:


3. Once back aboard the cylon locations from NC, a revealed cylon went to "Caprica" and drew two crises cards and chose one that had an activate occupation forces icon in the bottom left corner. On the cylon location, it clearly says cylon *ship* activation is to be ignored when the cylon chooses the crisis. However, it does not say anything about occupation forces - that is, the centurions on NC heading toward the shipyards to destroy civilian ships on the ground. Do the occupation forces activate?

 

There is nothing in the rules to indicate they don't activate (as far as I know) therefore, the occupation forces should continue to activate.  Specifically, the Pegasus Rules state:

Until the Galactica returns to orbit, all Cylon
ship activation icons are ignored. During the New Caprica
phase, however, occupation forces are activated by the
occupation forces icon.
Once Galactica reaches orbit, do the following, in order:
1.  Place a basestar and four raiders in each of the two space
areas above Galactica (adjacent to its starboard side).
2.  Launch 2 vipers into each space area containing a viper
launch icon.
From this point forward, Cylon ship activation icons are no
longer ignored.
Nowhere does it indicate that Occupation Forces should stop activating, and the entire endgame is considered the "New Caprica Phase" according to the rules...



#5 Anacreon

Anacreon

    Member

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 06 September 2011 - 02:16 PM

Thanks for the rulebook clarification on number 1, Skowza.  Sometimes the details slip through. 

As for number 2, the shipyard on the NC board says "you may then move to Galactica."  So, it's a voluntary move.  My argument would be that it's like a card that says, "Do XYZ, then take an action."  If the action would cost something (like Roslin's activation actions) I don't see why it wouldn't always cost (unless, as you say, the card says otherwise, and here it doesn't seem to say otherwise.  It's not stated as free).  The rules say that once Galactica is back, humans may now move back and forth from NC by discarding a card - it never mentions "except at the shipyard where it's free."  I believe more likely it is just giving the human an additional movement option *after* the action, although the movement still costs a card.  Another, less convincing interpretation is that it's the *only* place from which you can leave NC - given it's the shipyards, it's the only place the ships are taking off (and you could then possibly argue that that is why it's free, because you are catching the ship there, but it costs a card to leave from elsewhere because it costs to come get picked up in Breeder's Canyon or something; but now the whole thing just seems silly).  As for the case you mentioned where a pilot doesn't have to pay for the return trip to Galactica when it jumps, I would argue that it was never a "move" and never a choice.  It just happened to them.  Same thing if a player is brigged while they are on Colonial One, or space, or Pegasus.  You don't pay the card to go to jail because it's not a move and not a choice.  However, the move from NC is a "move" and it is a choice.  What do you think?

As for three, I think it's probably as you say.

Thanks again.



#6 Skowza

Skowza

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,131 posts

Posted 06 September 2011 - 02:47 PM

Just don't use NC cause it sucks anyway. Problem solved.  



#7 Holy Outlaw

Holy Outlaw

    Member

  • Members
  • 307 posts

Posted 06 September 2011 - 02:50 PM

That too.

I'd like to chime in that my understanding of the rules is the same as Skowza's on all three points.

As for number 2, I understand the wording of "If you do X, you may then do Y" to always replace the typical cost of doing Y with a new cost. So if a crisis card says, "If you pass this check, you may then send a character to the brig," you would not need to pass the typical Admiral's Quarters check to move the person to the brig. The shipyard follows the same "If you do X, you may then do Y" wording, so I do not believe there should be an additional cost on Y.

 



#8 Anacreon

Anacreon

    Member

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 07 September 2011 - 01:12 AM

Yeah, well, like I said, we were giving NC a second chance, to mix things up.  And I'll just add... it wasn't my idea. 

Still not sure I totally accept the logic of the arguments on number 2, but I appreciate the views and concede they could be the right ones. 



#9 Skowza

Skowza

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,131 posts

Posted 20 September 2011 - 10:14 AM

Even though we never play NC, I want clarification on the shipyard question, so I sent it to FFG Rules about a week ago.  I have not heard back from them, and I know that for AGoT questions we are better off asking Nate (game designer) directly rather than using the Rules section... does anyone know if I would get an answer if I sent it to one of the moderators instead?



#10 Holy Outlaw

Holy Outlaw

    Member

  • Members
  • 307 posts

Posted 20 September 2011 - 01:40 PM

 Skowza, I know it's sketchy, but the rules link is the only thing that's ever worked for me. I'm not aware of a faster way.



#11 Skowza

Skowza

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,131 posts

Posted 20 September 2011 - 01:54 PM

sigh... I figured as much, but like I said, for Game of Thrones sending the question to Nate directly usually works.  I figure I'll probably get a reply sooner or later, and I never use NC anyway, I just don't like the fact that I don't know the correct answer.  
On the plus side (and totally off-topic), I get to introduce the game to several new players this weekend!



#12 Holy Outlaw

Holy Outlaw

    Member

  • Members
  • 307 posts

Posted 20 September 2011 - 06:32 PM

 Nice. As much as I love trying to getting together five savvy veterans, you've got to mix up the balance once in a while. The whole dynamic changes with even one new player, I've found.

Incidentally, it's been a while since I've played but I also have a nice night of gaming scheduled this Saturday. I'm so looking forward to it. I see the thread one or two down asking for a new expansion (and I'll buy it if they print it, mainly because I badly want the Earth destination card) but I still feel like every time I learn something about the game, it only exposes a new question. I could get *so* many more plays out of just base + Pegasus + Exodus. 

Have fun this weekend!



#13 Skowza

Skowza

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,131 posts

Posted 25 September 2011 - 12:46 PM

No answer yet from FFG...  but since we've hijacked this thread into a totally different topic now, my game went great!  The new guys loved it and thought it was really thematic.  
A strategy question though - it was a 5-player game and once they were revealed the 2 Cylons eventually began hammering on us with the Bridge using the "mess with the jump tracks" spot and the "roll to damage Galactica if you have a lot of Raiders out" spot.  The Engine Room was already damaged so we couldnt artificially increase the jump track and they ended up winning.  They also managed to get all 3 Humans into Sick Bay at the same time and then kept putting us back there when they damaged locations we were occpying.  Since we were forced to focus on shooting down Raiders with Pegasus to try and keep them from completely destroying Galactica (10+ Raiders out so they didnt even have to roll) that Bridge option seemed a little OP.  I've always feared someone would figure out they could abuse that jump track spot but no one had until last night. 
How do Humans counter that approach?  You just get stuck and can't jump any more and then the game kills you even without the Cylon players' help.



#14 Holy Outlaw

Holy Outlaw

    Member

  • Members
  • 307 posts

Posted 25 September 2011 - 01:17 PM

I hear you. That bottom left corner of the CFB is the money square, for sure. With my group, the humans often sit on their Strategic Plannings during sleeper phase to use on that roll (only a roll of 1 backs up the track if you Strategic Planning the roll). I don't find the CFB overpowered, but that particular ability is the big threat, and I have seen it combine with a little bad human luck or bad human play to seal cylon victories more than once.



#15 Skowza

Skowza

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,131 posts

Posted 25 September 2011 - 02:03 PM

Yea, I dont think it'll happen every game, but dumb luck resulted in their roll setting our track back every time, they never once advanced theirs. 



#16 redsimon

redsimon

    Member

  • Members
  • 226 posts

Posted 26 September 2011 - 03:05 AM

Because of the Raider destruction option of Basestar Bridge it is advisable to use the Pegasus guns once in a while to clear away some Raiders. It also makes the pilots last longer in space because these big clumps of Raiders usually send them to Sickbay.



#17 Skowza

Skowza

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,131 posts

Posted 26 September 2011 - 09:04 AM

redsimon said:

Because of the Raider destruction option of Basestar Bridge it is advisable to use the Pegasus guns once in a while to clear away some Raiders. It also makes the pilots last longer in space because these big clumps of Raiders usually send them to Sickbay.

Actually, I had no problem surviving as the only pilot (Lee) against giant raiding fleets.  Between the good Vipers, Run Interference, and Evasive Maneuvers, I didn't get shot down at all!  But you're right, we should have started using Pegasus guns a little sooner than we did.



#18 Skowza

Skowza

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,131 posts

Posted 30 March 2012 - 09:05 AM

Anacreon said:

2. On New Caprica, when the Galactica comes back, the rules say humans discard a card to return to the ships.  But on the New Cap board, it says if you use an action on the Shipyard location to evacuate a civilian ship, you may then return to Galactica.  One player argued that then the return to Galactica in this case was free; another argued the rules simply said it costs a card to travel.  Which is it? 

Skowza said:


Even though we never play NC, I want clarification on the shipyard question, so I sent it to FFG Rules.

 

 

Well, I finally got an answer to this question.  FFG response:

Thanks for the question and very sorry for the delay in a response. A human player who moves to Galactica as a result of using the Shipyard location does not need to discard a skill card to do so. Hope that helps!

 


Tim Uren
Associate Producer
turen@fantasyflightgames.com



#19 Anacreon

Anacreon

    Member

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 30 March 2012 - 05:31 PM

Thanks for updating us!






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS