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Question about Monster Marker


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#1 Buatha

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Posted 23 August 2011 - 08:13 AM

So, while waiting for my pre-order, I was reading the manual.  On Page 11, there is this item:

"If a player successfully completed one or more tasks on a
Monster marker (or a task which includes a Monster marker, as
in the case of a partial monster task) before failing to resolve
the Adventure card it is on, he still gains the Monster marker,
removing all dice from the marker, taking it, and gaining any
reward mentioned on the back of the marker. He does this before
suffering the penalties for failing to resolve the Adventure card."

Is this just badly worded?  I haven't seen the game pieces yet, but do monsters have more than one task?  The manual just shows this with one task row of symbols.  When I read this, it sound like if you complete just one task out of two on a Monster marker, then you get to keep it even when failing the Adventure card. It seems a bit odd to me unless you might run out of dice or something if trying to resolve all of the task lines.



#2 Walk

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Posted 23 August 2011 - 03:34 PM

Shub-Niggurath's ability adds a one-terror task to all monsters, and there might be some other effects that add tasks to them.



#3 SexyMike44

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 05:34 PM

this is a good question.

I personally think it is just worded poorly.  I have been playing it that way.

My take is that you need to beat the monster task to get it, but you get it even if you fail the adventure.  I have also been treating anything that adds to the monster task as part of the task and thus you need to complete the whole task to get the monster marker.  Also I read it as the dice used to complete the monster task are locked until you finish or fail the adventure card.  So I view a strategy in placing monster markers (when you have the option) of putting them on adventures where the negative effects for failing arn't that bad since you may have to beat a monster task or two , fail, and then come back to finish the adventure.

This is my take on the rules, some developer input would be nice though.



#4 identityflux

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 01:56 AM

SexyMike44 said:

 

...My take is that you need to beat the monster task to get it, but you get it even if you fail the adventure. I have also been treating anything that adds to the monster task as part of the task and thus you need to complete the whole task to get the monster marker...

Completely agree. It does open the possibility for a bit of tactical monster slaying/placing as well as presenting the possibilty of taking the penalty to make it easier for the next player to attempt to Adventure.



#5 Walk

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 03:20 AM

The bit about gaining the monster as a trophy if you complete its task and fail the adventure is definitely the official ruling.  Certainly, at least for the moment, your idea that all the monster's tasks combine would seem to be a houserule.



#6 identityflux

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 04:27 AM

identityflux said:


Completely agree. It does open the possibility for a bit of tactical monster slaying/placing as well as presenting the possibility of taking the penalty to make it easier for the next player to attempt to Adventure.

In wonderful contradiction to myself (personally I blame Non-Euclidean angles and a gibbous moon ) it does indeed appear that Shub’s power adds an Additional task to the monster and not to the existing task itself. I guess that does mean it would be one roll to get that terror icon and another to get the monster's base task as apposed to one roll to hit all.

Although the rulebook states 'one or more' I'm assuming that it should read 'If a player successfully completed ALL tasks on a Monster marker...', this would allow for varing amounts of tasks depending on external influences such as Shub's special, mythos cards e.t.c.

 



#7 Walk

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 04:52 AM

Well, I don't know, if the developers were only thinking of monsters as having one task, they would have said "the task."  As it is, it seems like they meant for you to be able to get a monster if you fail the adventure and complete only one of its tasks.  This doesn't seem too easy on the investigators, at least to me, because most of the time, it's really not a good idea to fail an adventure.



#8 SexyMike44

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 06:14 AM

well i bought the game at Gencon, so i own it and know what all the pieces look like.  And the monster markers are tasks.  You place them on the adventure cards, sometimes they replace tasks on the card, sometimes they add whole new tasks to the card, and in some rare cases they add to a task on the card.

As an owner of the game, I wish the rules for monster markers was a bit more detailed/clear.  One point I am unclear of is if you can place multiple monster markers on the game card even if there are none on other cards (and i'm assuming none of the other cards have the spots for monster markers).  The rules make no mention to this, but to me it seems kinda weak to be able to throw all your monster markers on an adventure you just never plan to complete, but there are times you want to complete the monster markers...(sometimes they locked a die, or sometimes they give a nice benefit like 2 clue tokens).

as for a point earlier about the boss card adding a requirement to all monsters, yes that means to beat each monster that game you need that extra requirement, that guy makes beating the monsters a lot harder and you almost have to kill monsters, then let the next person beat the adventure.

The monster markers are tasks though.  Some adventure cards you have to do the tasks in order, some you don't.  Putting the monster markers on tasks you don't have to go in order is nice, that way you can do the monster's first, and if you fail, the next person can do that advenure but without any of the monster markers you beat.



#9 Walk

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Posted 26 August 2011 - 08:03 AM

I'm not entirely sure if I understand what you're saying, but my point is that the extra task added by Shub-Niggurath is an additional task.  It's not part of the task on the marker, and the rules state that you need to complete only one of a monster's tasks in order to defeat it.  Thus, if you're playing against Shub-Niggurath and you fail an adventure but complete one of a monster's two tasks, you get the monster as a trophy.



#10 SexyMike44

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 04:16 AM

and that is where I think it is worded poorly.  I understand the rules to mean that all the dice/objectives/requirements on a monster marker are 1 task. So you need to meet all those requirements to complete the task and gain the monster marker.  So for the guy that adds a terror requirement to all monster markers, to me that means if the monster marker had 3 investigation and a scroll requirement to normally complete the task on the monster marker, now you need 3 investigation, a scroll and a terror to complete the task.

There are other cards at midnite that add things like "all taks that require an investigation component now require an additional investigation", and that lasts until the clock next strikes midnight.  This means if you come up on adventure that reads:

                   4 investigation

                   scroll, scroll

                   3 investigation, scroll, terror.

to beat the adventure you need to do

                   5 investigation

                   scroll, scroll

                   4 investigation, scroll, terror.

these components to the game do make it a lot harder, but some are only temporary.

 

As i understand how the rules read, a monster marker is a task, so that one part in the rules to me is worded poorly or is a error.



#11 Walk

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 04:34 AM

Not to belabor the point, but Shub-Niggurath's sheet specifically says that the terror requirement is a task in and of itself.  It's possible that both Shub-Niggurath's sheet and the one section of the rules are wrong, but I think it more likely that they're both right.



#12 SexyMike44

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 03:07 AM

the problem for me is that the rest of the rulebook talks about how each line of requirements on an adventure card is a task.

so at this point we are just gonna have to agree to disagree.  hopefully an errata or developer post can clear this up at some point.



#13 SexyMike44

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 03:24 AM

one more thing though.  And i guess this is partially  a question too.  How do you just complete 1 "task" on a monster marker?  To me the marker is a task.  You can only place dice on a task if you can finish the task.  you can't place a single die on a task unless you finish the whole task.  you can save a die for a future roll as stated in the rules or through use of spells, but you can not just place complete part of a task line.  I don't think the designers intended to have this aspect of the game not apply to monster markers, since some monster markers read "3 investigation, move the clock, minus 1 sanity".  I don't think you could just do 3 investigation and ignore the negetive effects.  there are also monster markers that have an OR requirement, such that you need a doom or a terror.  If you only needed 1 to beat the monster to begin with why put an "OR" in there, and not just put them next to each other?

 

food for thought i guess.



#14 Walk

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 07:06 AM

I'm not entirely sure if this addresses your question, but I think so: all the requirements on a monster marker are one task.  Under normal circumstances, a monster will only have one task.  Thus, under normal circumstances, the rule we discussed is void.  However, Shub-Niggurath's sheet specifically states that the Terror roll requirement is a task in and of itself, not part of the printed task.  The reason I don't agree with you is that Shub's sheet doesn't say "add the following requirement to each monster," it says "add the following extra task to each monster."  Thus, when you're playing against Shub-Niggurath, you treat each monster marker as though it has two lines (and thus two tasks): one with the printed requirements, and one with only a Terror requirement.  There would be nowhere to put the die locked in for the extra Terror task, so you would just have to set aside and pretend it was locked in.  In short, you are correct that you cannot split up a task's requirements, but the Terror requirement endowed by Shub-Niggurath is a seperate task from the task printed on the marker.



#15 SexyMike44

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 02:24 PM

I suppose that is a possible interpretation.  I still disagree, but I can see your reasoning.  In either case you still have to add to the monster marker a spot for the terror requirement.  Again I just hope maybe an errata or later rules edition will clarify this a bit more.



#16 Baenre

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 02:42 PM

It's fairly clear it's a carry over from playtester wording about "adding a task" to a monster.  His ability, as i played it with the designers at Gencon ADDS to a mosters complete task.  Thusly, all monster with Shub as your goo will have an extra Terror result added to them in order to complete the task.

 

The games definition of a "Task" is all the DIE results you need in one of the  horizontal rows on an adventure card.  The die results are not tasks which is why Shub's wording is clearly a printing error most probably from an editor missing it during proofing.



#17 Walk

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 08:59 AM

Well, that still doesn't explain the "one or more tasks" line on page 12, but I suppose that, by this point, I should know to expect redundant/confusing wording from FFG....



#18 Baenre

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 04:54 PM

Not sure where you are seeing that line at on page 12.  My rulebook only has 12 pages and the last page finishes telling you how to combat the Goo.   Nowhere in that description does it say that.



#19 Walk

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 12:13 AM

Sorry, page 11.  Not sure how I got 12.  The third paragraph of page 11 begins with "If a player successfully completed one or more tasks on a monster marker," thus indicating (seemingly) that there can be more than one task on a monster marker.  Unless I'm mistaken, there's no way for monsters to gain extra tasks other than Shub, whose ability apparently does not really add a task.



#20 SexyMike44

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 03:17 AM

well sometimes writers/developers use loose language to leave open room for expansions later.  So who knows, maybe there will be bad ass monsters in an expansion that have more then one line/task.






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