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#1 meatwad819

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 02:39 PM

My friends and I have been thinking of adapting cards into an expansion for this edition of talisman. As there is no good reason to have gold at the moment, we've been starting a City type of expansion. He owns the 3rd edition of the game, and we've adapted most if not all of the cards from that edition to work in this edition. Here is the fruit of our labors. Please note we used strange eons and own nothing here. Most if not all of the artwork has been taken from Magic the Gathering cards, and all art that is from them is the property of Wizard. All card effects are the property the owners of talisman, and the back art is by JC Hendee (according to Strange Eons). (Chose this backart as it was the only one in there that was different from other cards on the board already. Didn't feel like making one myself yet.) 

 

We're hoping to make a full blown board after this, though that will probably be much tougher. If anyone has any suggestions please feel free to comment. I simply uploaded this on the off chance anyone would like to use these cards.

-Meatwad819



#2 Blackalliance

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 08:48 PM

I like what I'm seeing so far.  Here are some random ideas for city encounters or locations:

Blacksmith / Armoury:  A place to buy extremely expensive items; nasty swords or other weapons that can deal some real damage if one is strong enough to use them.  Tailor made suits of armour that only count as one object and allow you to fight another round of combat if you loose the first round (and no loss of life in the first round either).

City graveyard and holy temple type location(s)

Upper, middle, lower class and abandoned areas of the city:  Abandoned graveyards to Masoleums, Taverns to well to do Wineries

A magic shop to buy expensive...mysterious items.  How about a spell book that allows you to carry as many spell cards as your craft level (8 Craft = 8 spells) so that spell casters can actually act like spell casters finally.  Maybe once you put the spell into the book, you never have to discard it when you cast the spell but you do have to miss a turn before you cast the spell and not be interupted while missing your turn to cast that spell (like being attacked by another player).

Doctor or healer, a kings court, a gladiators arena where you can bet gold on yourself in a duel.

A jeweler, for all the gems and trinkets you find in the Highland, etc.

A gambling hall?

An expensive place to buy craft and strength:  If you have a craft of 6 you can pay 7 gold to listen to the teachings of a wise council and gain a craft.  If you have a craft of 10 you would have to pay 11 gold, craft of 12 would cost 13 gold for a gain, etc.

Alchemist

A hunters trading store where you can trade in your Animal trophy cards for a gold instead of handing them over for more strength.  Could be done with Dragon trophy cards as well, for more than one gold obviously.

Just some thoughts...I'll think about it some more.



#3 Blackalliance

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 02:52 PM

Is this City Expansion something you were planning on having available for download in the future; possibly at Talisman Islands download page?

I'd love to take on a project like this but the amount of time it takes to do artwork, editing, layout design, etc. would be extensive.  I always thought taking screen shots of some of the great PC RPG's and printing them out for gameboard art would be an excellent way to go.  I haven't played many of them lately but some of the places in "The Witcher" and "Elder Scrolls 4" would look great on a game board, in my opinion.  Should be ok to do this as long as you're not doing it for profit, if I recall correctly.



#4 JCHendee

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 03:29 AM

I understand that in using SE, there are limited options for backs in making wholly new types of cards.  BUT I would prefer that you not use my alignment card back for your expansion, since that is just confusing to those who use home made expansions.  If you need a cardback for a "City" based expansion, I'd be happy to assist. Might even help out with a motif for the front. You can contact me via the appropriate link in my sig.

Additional, others including myself have occasionally puttered with a city "deck" where one has to draw a card from that deck if one does not or cannot visit one of the City's personas.  It doesn't seem to attract players obsessed with needing a board, but it does work out to be much quicker for play... and leaves that corner open for something else, some other real realm board. Boards aren't always necessary or best for expanding (realming) a single space.



#5 rfh0

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 05:07 PM

Fantasy Flight needs to release all of the expansions that were in the original 4th addition...including the city. Otherwise, it isn't a true 4th addition. So far I love the revised 4th addition!!!



#6 JCHendee

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 12:44 PM

I think you mean the 2nd edition... and not all of the expansions were from that, as the Highlands was originally the Mountains in the 3rd edition.  The original Talisman is the rarely ever seen 1st edition.



#7 meatwad819

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 03:57 PM

 Sorry to anyone who may have been interested that I had not posted earlier. We did a demo of the board by using large sticky notes to make a board. I can't really say as of yet if it was a success or not, as most of the people didn't have enough gold to actually do anything there. Sadly we have been more interested with using house rules and the new dragon expansion then actually using the city. If I ever get more time to get to it, we can try it again and see how it works out. If anyone's interested in the board I can post that another day. Just let me know!

 



#8 JCHendee

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 03:41 AM

It would be interesting to see the board, but I think you've stumbled upon part of the problem with the old commercial City.  It was novel for a short while and then not so much.

Aside from actually rolling the right number to get to it, moving around that so-called realm to buy things at multiple locations had its disadvantages. While other players were racing around the open land, anyone in the city was using just as much time to go a few city blocks... and still getting the same range of movement nonetheless for an almost contradicting disparity.  It was the most unnoticed most-incongruous expansion in any edition which primarily tried to rectify that a "Village" is not where one goes shopping for equipment and beasts of burden.

In the end, during the 2E days, we also banned the "master" characters as well as too cheap and easy to acquire for some their potency.  In 4ER's escalation of character potency, those master class characters might actually look a bit whimpy now, so I cringe that the thought of what they'd become to fit into to 4ER. I for one don't see the need of a City board again... but I know I'd be outvoted in that.

But again, when you have time, share the board with us. It's always a nice break in the day to see what others are creating.



#9 Tons-Home-rules

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 03:16 AM

Personally, I have no problem about the disparity of space.  I can rationalize anything.  It’s not like the Dungeon spans the same space as a Highland mountain.  The Dungeon is just more crowded and you have to inch through.  I use a similar logic to say that a City square isn’t far, it’s packed.  Squares, for me, are a measure of time, not distance.  I never saw the Dungeon like the Underdark, more like a packed place you have to fight through.

 

I will agree with you about the bad points of the old City, but FFG seems to be avoiding many old pitfalls.  I would like to see / hope the following is used…

SHOP squares – Any squares designated as shopping allows you to stop there and ignore the extra squares of movements.

Precedent = End Squares of the Dungeon and Highland allow you to do the same thing i.e. disregard your extra move.  Ergo, any Shop in the City would have the same mechanic.


MASTER CLASS (or whatever they were called.  I didn’t own 2nd Ed.  I played on my friend’s game) – They are titles.  They add to your existing character.  |Master Champion adds a bonus to dice rolls.  Master Wizard allows you to have one extra spell.  Etc…

Precedent = Warlock Quest Rewards do similar things.  Add to Craft Value, a previously unchangeable stat, etc…

Titles would basically be soulbound, i.e. cannot be taken in combat, by a spell, etc…

Precedent = Scales and Warlock rewards cannot be taken either.

You’d get a title by fighting a STR 8 / CRA 8 Creature on a city square, likely with a prerequisite to start the fight, say, must have 3 spells to challenge the Master Wizard.  Lose a Life and/or something else if you lose.  Take the Title card if you win.

Precedent = End bosses, or things that can get you to the CoC are 12/12.  Minor bosses, like the Highland are 8/8.

Once you have a title, another player has to land on the City Square and either summons you to him/her, or s/he teleports to you, and you fight for the title.  This over-rides the “cannot be taken” part of a Title.

Precedent = NONE.  Just made that up.  Heh.


Watch Militia / Warrants – I never liked the “nothing happens” part of the watch in 2nd Edition, say, if you hadn’t fought on the prior turn or didn’t have a Warrant on you (if I remember well, if neither applied, you discarded the Watch Militia card).

If I had to make this up, the Militia would have a Character Card, just like Death with a nice table on it.  Whenever you fight a gang, urchin, thief, etc…, roll on the Militia Card.  It would range from “No patrol” i.e. nothing happens, to a ST/CR 2/2 regular militia Creature that adds to the current combat, or a ST/CR 4/4 Lieutenant, or a ST/CR 6/6 Captain.  Warrant played on you would add a + to the roll of whether the militia show up or not.  If you lost and Militia was present, instead of losing an item, a life, etc…you go to Jail instead.  Imprisoned, then leave on a 4-6 on a move roll, just like the Temple.  Maybe add a +1 per Gold Bribe after the first roll. 

Made this up again.

Personally, I loved the City, and, as such, it just needs a bit of work to be usable.  A money sink seems to be a valued addition.  And, as long as they spruce up the encounters, and seriously re-do the Master Class mechanic, it could be really fun, at least for me.

 



#10 JCHendee

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 03:52 AM

Tons-Home-rules said:

SHOP squares – Any squares designated as shopping allows you to stop there and ignore the extra squares of movements.

That is the way the old City board already worked.

I know the master level character overlays were popular, though they were soon abandoned in my group. They were simply far to easy to acquire. They should be included for those who like them but (as in previous editions) have an acquisition mechanic not integrated into any other component of the expansion so they can be ignored / removed at a whim.

And the combat option would not work in all cases such as the Herald and the Mystic which have abilities that fall outside the realm of Battle and Psychic Combat.  In addition, by the time someone is strong enough to defeat such a challenge, they might as well have gone for the endgame... especially with the backdoors present in other expansion boards.  Even if someone fell behind and saw a master level character overlay as an option, the speed of the game has been pushed so far that it wouldn't make much difference to catching up. 

Something else, and something other than old easy way, needs to be created for acquistion. And it needs to be something a bit more specific to each master and not so generic.

Tons-Home-rules said:


Watch Militia / Warrants – I never liked the “nothing happens” part of the watch in 2nd Edition, say, if you hadn’t fought on the prior turn or didn’t have a Warrant on you (if I remember well, if neither applied, you discarded the Watch Militia card)

Agreed. A waste of time and utterly uninteresting... but I felt that way in general about the CIty as a whole.

You idea for the Militia is nice. Simple and direct. I'd play it.  But I can already see a majority of "faster-faster" players calling it too fussy. Just an experienced viewpoint having watched changes in the Talisman community in certain spurts over 20+ years. Then again... you could always write it up as an add-on when / if the City comes out (hint hint).

Here's hoping this post goes in without the usual snafoos of the forum



#11 Xylaphobe

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 06:59 AM

I have been working on this with meatwad for a while now and this is the board in its draft stage:

 

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww258/Xylaphobe/Car/th_CitySPaces-1.jpg

 

The Ford - You must attempt to ford the river when moving through this space. Roll a die for each follower on a roll of 1 the follower is swept away by the river to the discard pile.

The Trolls Bridge - You must roll a die while passing through this space. On a 1-2 you encounter a Troll, you must either battle him (Str6) or pay him 1Gp, if you lose the battle your movement stops and you must encounter the Troll Bridge again next turn. On a 3-6 pass safely and continue your move

The City Gates - You must stop here. Roll a die 1 - Attacked by a Beggar Str2 If you win you may enter the city next turn. 2 - The Gates are closed on your next turn you may encounter the gates again or move away. 3 - Pass safely next turn you may enter the city. 4 - Found a secret stash collect 3 gold and you may enter the city next turn. 5 - Play a game of cards with some commoners they lead you to the back alley right now. 6 - Gate guards judge you worthy you become the City Champion take the Champion card and take another turn.

Horse Market - You may buy a horse if it is available from the horse cards. Riding Horse 2Gp, Mule 3Gp, Horse and Cart 4Gp, Warhorse 6Gp.

Jail – To escape jail you must roll a die. 1-2 Beaten lose 1 life and remain in jail. 3-4 No escape remain in jail. 5-6 you escape successfully move into the back alley.

Sheriff’s Office – To overthrow the current sheriff you must pass a test of strength. Roll a die and add it to your current strength if it totals: 1-6 you overpowered and are thrown in jail for wasting time, 7-9 you cannot beat the Sheriff’s test but are not thrown in jail. 10 or more you master the current Sheriff’s test and take the badge, take the Sheriff Title card.

Armory – You may purchase Items from the purchase deck: Sword 1Gp, Axe 2Gp, Helmet 1Gp, Shield 2Gp, Armor 3Gp, Water Bottle 1Gp, Master Crafted Mace 8Gp.

Wizards Guild – You may attempt to depose the Arch Mage roll a die and add it to your current craft. 1-6 the mages dominate you and transform you into a toad, 7-9 You struggle with the Arch Mage’s trial but cannot defeat him. 10 or more you complete the trials of the Mages Guild and become the new Arch Mage, take the Arch Mage Title card.

High Temple – You may heal up to your fate value at the cost of 1Gp per fate.

The Warf – You may pay 2Gp to move to any space in the outer or middle region as your next turn but you must declare the space this turn and cannot change it.

Sewer – Roll a die, 1 you contract a plague you lose one life at the start of each turn until you reach the doctor Draw one city card. 2-3 draw 2 city cards. 4-5 you find a secret exit from the sewers you may move to the adjacent woods space in the outer region. 6 you find a trap door to utter darkness you may move to the hall of darkness in the dungeon.

Alchemist – You may buy potions from the alchemist pay 1Gp per potion and roll a die for each potion that you purchase. 1 the potion is toxic, lose one life. 2-4 the potion has no effect. 5-6 you can feel the potion making you more powerful take one strength, craft or life.

Doctor – The doctor will remove a plague from any character that enters his shop. Additionally he will heal you back to your life value at the cost of 1Gp per life.

Pawn Brokers Shop – You may sell any item for 1 gold and leave it on the pawn broker’s space. Additionally you may purchase any items in the pawn brokers stock for 2Gp and any magic items for 3Gp.

 



#12 meatwad819

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 07:04 AM

If all goes as planned we should be playing with this expansion again tonight. Hopefully, we'll get a good report back and see how the feedback for this "alpha" goes. Before we put anymore time into designing backs or similar issues, I do want to see if this is something our group would actually want to have. The main reason this is on the board is to give the most useless resource (gold) a reason to have again. Sure there are some uses for it, but overall it just feels terribly unneeded, unless you're the alchemist.

-Meatwad

 



#13 Tons-Home-rules

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 09:16 PM

Thank you for the comments.  And as for...

JCHendee said:

That is the way the old City board already worked.

Well, this is embarrassing.  As I said, I don't own The City, so I was going from memory.  I thought, somehow, you had to roll exactly.  Misremembering... obviously.  I'm sorry, not just for re-inventing the wheel, but taking CREDIT for re-inventing the wheel.  Heh.



#14 meatwad819

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 01:06 AM

 Well after playing with the City expansion, I noticed a slight problem. I didn't want to leave the City.  After running through the highlands, I quickly amassed  a bunch of trinkets and went to the City. After gaining gold from the alchemist, I ventured in. I then stayed there the rest of the game until end game. One problem I had was with the archmage title. After gaining it, a fellow player took it from me the next turn. I then took it back. This continued for at least 7 turns! However, I will say that this really was a fun expansion that makes gold an EXTREMELY useful commodity. It does, however, feel a little unbalanced in how anyone with gold can level up extremely quickly. If anyone has any suggestions, comments, concerns, questions, or whatever, please let me know.

-Justin



#15 JCHendee

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 03:17 AM

I'm not sure what you mean by buying into a level up.  But by whatever meaning, in part, this has always been the problem with the "master" level character addons. They are often why characters loitered in the old 2E city.  With the faster-faster way of plays these days, maybe making level ups purchase-able is just adding fuel to the fire... less adventuring and more finding the shortcut mechanics for a win.  Something to think about on both sides, depending on how much you want to appeal to which divisions of the players community. 

I like some the spaces you've added, and i could see the Storm River actually passing through the city with several bridges to get over in various ways to get from the part of the city on the outer or inner side of it.  Just a notion. Maybe the really good stuff (the level ups) are only available on the outer side of the city with the city gate being on the inner side with all of the supplies to be bought. To get to the free level ups (master characters, etc.) you have to venture across the river via a bridge, and each one might have a differen challenge.

To deal with loitering, there is another type of card I remember someone developing in the 2E days.  It was the constabulary card (local civilian police vs the military city guard). If you draw a constabulary card, and you have no gold or currency that can actually be used like gold of goods and sevices, you get booted out for vagrancy.  You must leave immediately on your next turn.  There were some variations with nastier consequences, but I think that's good enough if you insert at least 1 Constabulary card per 10 cards in the deck.



#16 meatwad819

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 06:40 AM

 It's definitely true the master level character for the Archmage is too powerful at the moment. Having the sprites ability of 2 spells constantly for any character is a big bonus. We were thinking of changing this to be "You may hold one more spell then your craft allows," to solve the issue of the Archmage being so good.

-Meatwad819



#17 talismanamsilat

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 09:46 PM

meatwad819 said:

 It's definitely true the master level character for the Archmage is too powerful at the moment. Having the sprites ability of 2 spells constantly for any character is a big bonus. We were thinking of changing this to be "You may hold one more spell then your craft allows," to solve the issue of the Archmage being so good.

-Meatwad819

My version of the Genie has this Special Ability!

Ell.



#18 JCHendee

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 10:44 AM

meatwad819 said:

 It's definitely true the master level character for the Archmage is too powerful at the moment. Having the sprites ability of 2 spells constantly for any character is a big bonus. We were thinking of changing this to be "You may hold one more spell then your craft allows," to solve the issue of the Archmage being so good.

-Meatwad819

Does that also include "you always have at least 1 spell"?  Don't remember the master characters very well, but an Archmage would be the kind to always have one spell. Beyond that, the idea of having one more spell than craft allows is okay, though it violates the notion of Craft oriented spell use... for those with craft less than 3.



#19 meatwad819

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Posted 20 October 2011 - 06:30 AM

While you raise a valid point, it is difficult to imagine a scenario wherein someone with less then 3 craft will be able to become the archmage (roll a die and add your craft, at a total of 10 or more you become the archmage.) I'm not saying it's impossible, but it would be difficult.

-Meatwad819

 

JCHendee said:

meatwad819 said:

 

 It's definitely true the master level character for the Archmage is too powerful at the moment. Having the sprites ability of 2 spells constantly for any character is a big bonus. We were thinking of changing this to be "You may hold one more spell then your craft allows," to solve the issue of the Archmage being so good.

-Meatwad819

 

 

Does that also include "you always have at least 1 spell"?  Don't remember the master characters very well, but an Archmage would be the kind to always have one spell. Beyond that, the idea of having one more spell than craft allows is okay, though it violates the notion of Craft oriented spell use... for those with craft less than 3.



#20 JCHendee

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Posted 22 October 2011 - 03:04 AM

Very true, the odds are low for gaining the Archmage with Craft of 2 or 1.  I think change to +1 on spell limit is better than what's on the original card along with the "always have 1 spell" part. Still, better though it is, I don't like those second/master level characters much. Talisman's intended to be a bit whimsical and silly, but those character overlays are just too easy of a powergrab. I remember the number of times a game degenerated into who could become this or that instead of just playing the character... playing the core game.

Of course even this is a bit moot, considering the escalation of power in characters from one expansion to the next.  Perhaps these cards might be an equalizer for players who end up with a lower powered character. Then again, overlaying one of the more recent characters, such as from the Dragon expansion, would bring in a combined character of ridiculous ability never before seen.  It's kinda sad, but that's that, and there's no complete and easy fix. Another reason why I'm against these kinds of character overlays.

That being said, I think you've done well in the work on the Archmage and nothing better could be done.  Is it time to pump out a card for it?

ADDENDUM:

I did just look back at the beginning and notice the diversity of bonuses among the master level characters. I didn't dig enough to learn how the King's Champion is acquired, but I wondered at the diversity of bonues one the cards. From what I see, there is...

+2 Craft
+2 Strength
+1 Craft / +1 Lives
+1 Craft / +1 Strength

The last one is the odd man out, King's Champion, and I thought I might suggest a slight alternative. What about making him "+1 Strength / +1 Fate"? I'm not sure I see how that title confers craft based on what that title is really bestowed for.  But certain it would bump fate.  And if nothing else, it might nicely round out the bonuses available among the master characters.

ANOTHER ADDENDUM:

Just further wild nothing... perhaps it is the Thief that has luck on his side... maybe a thief at "+1 Craft / +1 Fate" and a champion at "+1 Strength / +1 Lives"? Then again, maybe that just makes the champion too hard to beat, since Battle / Strength is still the dominant part of the game. Imagine the Troll getting his hands on that card. Even for an early low powered character (comparatively), that would make a character that is very hard to finish off.






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