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Second Edition announced


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#1 Graf

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 10:39 AM

2nd edition has been announced: New game designers and a promise to streamline the game.

And: No more threat points.

 

http://www.fantasyfl...s.asp?eidn=2531



#2 slaphead6

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 12:28 PM

Finally! I'm quite excited by this. Also like the idea of a conversion kit that will enable all the existing monsters and heroes to be used in the new version of the game. Looks as though there are a lot of changes - no threat tokens, no power dice, new defence dice. Hero characters are class based. 4 archetypes and eight classes, so presumably 2 for each archetype. Lots of stuff to speculate about and time to start saving for a 2012 release date.

Did I say that I was excited about this? Because I really am Excited pleased and happy that there is going to be something new for Descent. Now just got to be patient and wait for the details to start to be released.



#3 Jonny WS

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 04:10 PM

A second edition is all fine and dandy.   But if its assumed that the first edition will be phased out, can we at least get an up to date FAQ for the first edition.   An FAQ to end all FAQs.  



#4 Graf

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 08:18 PM

slaphead6 said:

 no power dice

 

The picture shows a black die (behind the blue one), so this might be a power die. 



#5 slaphead6

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Posted 05 August 2011 - 11:51 PM

Graf said:

slaphead6 said:

 

 no power dice

 

 

 

The picture shows a black die (behind the blue one), so this might be a power die. 

The symbol on the face of the black die is a shield, which tends to suggest that this is in fact a defence die, so I stand by my original observation that there may be no power dice in 2nd Edition. The lack of power dice does mean that 1st Ed skills such as Bash and Berserk will need to be reworked. Similarly the removal of lingering effects which rely upon a power die roll will presumably be replaced with skill checks. It's not clear how these skill checks will happen, but they are already present in both Runebound and Runewars albeit in different forms aqnd since Descent has both dice and cards it could be either mechanism, FWIW, my money is on a card based skill check system.



#6 extraterrestrial

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 12:28 AM

In the same time I'm excited to hear new stuff is coming for descent, I'm a bit sad that the "old" descent, I fell in love with, dies. I don't think there will be any significant updates now.

I'm not sure if I am willed to pay for the new edition and then the conversion kit. But even if there will be no more updates to the old descent I have plenty of quests and playtime left =)

On the first glimpse the changes are big, but don't sound too bad. Shorter, more concentrated quests, revised mechanics, integrated campaign, class-based heroes ... ideally the changes are so genial that no one misses the old version. But ... I'm afraid this will not happen.



#7 Steve-O

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 01:36 AM

Well I'm definitely excited about this announcement, no doubt about that. Personally, I'm a bit surprised that the announcement came so soon (not that I'm complaining, mind you.) I foresee great potential for renewed Descentery in the future =)

Things that I like, so far:

- Streamlined rulebook.  I've said before and I'll say again, 2e is probably the only way FFG could seriously patch up all the various rules interactions from across the spectrum of 1e expansions.  So I'm happy for this and I'm optimistic that the rules will be solid, even if they don't include everything 1e had.

- Built in campaign mode.  As much as I loved RtL, the fact that it came as an expansion to the base game always hurt its ability to function with the portion of the base rules that were inherited.  Having a proper campaign mode in 2e from the get go should make things much smoother.

- Character Advancement.  Sounds like the new rules for character advancement will be much more detailed than just "training dice," extra skills" and "more gear."  This should be a good thing in the long run, I think.  Hopefully it will help to dispel the whole "kill the heroes before they get silver gear if you want to win as OL."

- Quests with lots of "stopping points."  Sounds good to me.  Allows players to play as long as they want without demanding a whole night of their time.  At the same time, I'm guessing the quests will average reasonable lengthy over all (ie: comparable to 1e quests), otherwise these "stopping points" probably wouldn't be needed.  All in all, a good mechanic to have in the game.

Things that I'm ambivalent about:

- To be clear, "ambivalent" doesn't mean "I dislike these ideas."  It means "I have no strong opinion about these ideas."

- Defense dice.  Based on the news post it sounds like these were added to reduce twinky min/maxing on attack rolls.  I've never been a twink myself, so I certainly don't mind that addition, although I never found the min/maxing to be that distracting from the game anyway.  I don't think this adds too much to the game (on first blush) but I also don't think it detracts anything, so you know, whatever.

- 1e Conversion kit.  I was a bit surprised to see FFG jumping the gun on this one.  I mean, I probably will buy it just because I have 95% of the figures anyway, but even before the news post loaded I found myself thinking "the fans will convert everything from 1e soon enough."  Good on FFG for saving us the effort, I suppose, and it never hurts to have professionally printed components for these things =)

Things that I dislike:

- Nothing so far. =)

 

In general with FFG games, I've noticed that the second edition of anything usually improves greatly on the first edition.  They don't just crank out a new box with shinier pieces and ask you to buy the same game again.  They really sit down and reorganize everything into a smoother, better-balanced, clearer-worded new experience.  That's something Descent has been hurting for in recent years, so I'm very optimistic about what this 2e box will do for the franchise.  I'm hoping they worked in some of the story mechanics from MoM - I haven't had a chance to play that game yet, but I hear it's very atmospheric for its respective genre, so hopefully something similar angled at fantasy adventure could revitalize the ailing, oft denigrated, thematic angle in Descent.



#8 mi-go hunter

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 03:51 AM

I like what I see! :D The 2nd edition seems to be less fiddly than the original Descent, and shorter and more streamlined. Not only that, but it also seems to encourage a more immersive storytelling experience rather than just hacking through endless hordes of monsters with very little knowledge about the dungeon you're in. I always found Descent too massive and clunky, not to mentioned a wee bit unbalanced (Quest 7: The Black Blade is a good example). Heres to hoping that this edition will correct a few flaws from the first one and encourage me to put Descent back on the table!



#9 sepayne7l

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 06:35 AM

I'm happy for 2e. My group never plays Descent or Road to Legend anymore due to time constraints. Too many games and not enough meet-ups. This will help things out.

Descent was taking a serious whacking with the newer, slimmer games like Ravenloft and Claustrophobia. This should even things up.

I personally love the conversion kit. It's not too pricey, and will hopefully give guidelines for converting old scenarios.



#10 Dwarflord22

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 12:24 PM

Let me see if I understand this correctly.  I spent a significant amount of my gaming funds purchasing virtually every Descent product, except for Sea of Blood, including extra dice set over the last year.  Now everything. except for the minis included in those box sets. will now be useless?

 

 

 



#11 mwhite212

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Posted 07 August 2011 - 05:17 PM

Nobody is forcing you to buy 2nd edition. 1st edition is still a great game that will, by all indications, be a completely different experience from 2nd edition. Besides, I would think the room tiles will still be useful if creating your own quests. Though they won't look quite 'right' with the new tiles.  No reason to not put a little effort and modify all those 1st ed quests for 2nd ed.  Think of it this way . . . you're going to have access to a TON of material that newer players will not have if just getting in with 2nd edition.



#12 SoylentGreen

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 02:52 AM

Dwarflord22 said:

Let me see if I understand this correctly.  I spent a significant amount of my gaming funds purchasing virtually every Descent product, except for Sea of Blood, including extra dice set over the last year.  Now everything. except for the minis included in those box sets. will now be useless? 

 

That's how I understand it as well...

 

Don't get me wrong - I LOVE Descent 1e - and I am glad to literally have EVERYTHING they made for it content wise (I didn't buy the card board map for SoB or any of the pewter figurines) but I have everything else (been to both Terrinoth events.)

Sure I am bummed about the loss of a LOT of 1e products... like you say - we will only use the minis from here on out - but if the 2e will get this game back on our table again... I am ALL FOR IT! :)



#13 kalle

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 07:21 AM

Hard to say if the second edition will be good or bad, but as it's not taking anything away from playing the first edition, it has to be a good thing. If the second edition is good, that is excellent. If not, there is still for ever to play the quests of the first edition. But I hope for a really brilliant game play from this one. As a big fan of Descent and FFG products in general, I'm more than willing to get the new Descent boxes.

What is a bit worrying though is the estimated 1-2 hours playing time. How is that going to be possible ? It takes one hour just to set the board from Descent with some expansions, and playing time is now somewhere 6-10 hours range.



#14 SoylentGreen

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 08:41 AM

kalle said:

What is a bit worrying though is the estimated 1-2 hours playing time. How is that going to be possible ? It takes one hour just to set the board from Descent with some expansions, and playing time is now somewhere 6-10 hours range.

How possible? Hopefully due to much less stuff!

First Edition:

Descent: Journeys in the Dark includes;

1 Rulebook
1 Quest Guide
20 Hero Sheets
20 Plastic Heroes
60 Plastic Monsters
12 Custom Dice
180 Cards
1 Town Marker
61 Map Pieces
10 Door Markers
Hundreds of tokens and markers to fill your Descent toolbox! (Which according to my math from the original manual was like 370 tokens!)

Second Edition:

Descent: Journeys in the Dark Second Edition includes –

A rulebook and quest guide
Eight hero figures and 38 monster figures
Nine custom dice
Nearly 250 cards
48 Map tiles
Over 150 tokens

Save time - cut tokens down by over 50% - make more stacks of cards (cards are much quicker to setup and use.)

And hopefully the streamlined rules and info on the cards  will make a HUGE difference... I swear 20% of playing descent 1e is looking up and double checking the damn rules... especially once you have ALL the expansions in play!!!



#15 Steve-O

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 02:55 PM

kalle said:

 

What is a bit worrying though is the estimated 1-2 hours playing time. How is that going to be possible ? It takes one hour just to set the board from Descent with some expansions, and playing time is now somewhere 6-10 hours range.

 

 

In addition to Soylent's excellent point, I'd remind you of the "convenient stopping points" the initial announcement mentioned.  I'm guessing that will be something along the lines of RtL's "save game" mechanic.  ie: you can play the game for 1-2 hours, hit a stopping point and end for the night, come back later and continue.  With a campaign mode built into the game from the get go, just because you stop playing doesn't mean you're finished.

Even if the 1-2 hour estimate is intended to be for a single complete quest, I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.  If you finish one quest and want more, you can always play more.  And this is assuming FFG has actually refined their play time estimates.  I seem to recall that the estimates on the side of the 1e box weren't exactly "representative."



#16 kalle

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 11:21 PM

Steve-O said:

In addition to Soylent's excellent point, I'd remind you of the "convenient stopping points" the initial announcement mentioned.  I'm guessing that will be something along the lines of RtL's "save game" mechanic.  ie: you can play the game for 1-2 hours, hit a stopping point and end for the night, come back later and continue.  With a campaign mode built into the game from the get go, just because you stop playing doesn't mean you're finished.

That sounds promising. I see the long playing time for Descent both good and bad. The quests are very immersive, but the length also makes it harder to start a Descent session. I agree that the playing time can be reduced by just making it easier to rememenber all the special skills and effects that take place in the game. If that can be handled well, the game experience gets much better, without diminishing anything from the game. Just still a bit worried that the game gets too simple. I sort of also really like the huge amount of stuff for the game.

Well, we'll see, and I hope for the best, and will definitely get the second edition anyway.



#17 Scottwick

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 04:58 PM

Dwarflord22 said:

Let me see if I understand this correctly.  I spent a significant amount of my gaming funds purchasing virtually every Descent product, except for Sea of Blood, including extra dice set over the last year.  Now everything. except for the minis included in those box sets. will now be useless?

 

I only found out about 2e today and already I'm tired of hearing long-time fans complain about having to buy a new game.  Useless?  Is Final Fantasy 7 useless because you had to buy Final Fantasy 8-14?  After a new game comes out you never play the old one again?  True, Descent costs more than a video game (not much though), but all Fantasy Flight had to do was name 2e another name and change nothing in the box and your complaint is gone.

If you're just going to throw away Descent 1e once the new one comes out, send it my way, I'll play it a lot.

Now on a more positive note: 

I am EXCITED for this game!  I'm always the OL in our games.  It can get really frustrating when characters are overpowered and I sit there trying to make the game difficult to no effect.  Simplifying the game is definitely a bonus. 

I also hope whatever plastic is in the game is all new, no repeat characters or monsters.  Perhaps the new plastic could even be "backwards compatible" with 1e?  That would be sweet!

2012 is too far away!



#18 Sagremor

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 02:05 AM

Scottwick said:

 

I only found out about 2e today and already I'm tired of hearing long-time fans complain about having to buy a new game.  Useless?  Is Final Fantasy 7 useless because you had to buy Final Fantasy 8-14?  After a new game comes out you never play the old one again? 

There is one thing that nobody has noticed. The announcement of Descent 2nd edition announces also that there won't be any more expansions for 1st ed! Expansions for Descent have always gone in footsteps of expansions for Runebound:
Road to Legend - journey across Terrinoth
Tomb of Ice - elements from Frozen Wastes
Sea of Blood - journey across Torue Albes and Cerridor Sea
I hoped there would be more campaign expansion that allow players to journey across Al-Kalim, Isheim and Zanaga (that would be great!) but now we know that it's not the case. FFG can of course publish expansions that will take place in those lands but it's at least 5-7 years before reaching that point! This is my biggest dissapointment.






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