Hello. I’m part of logical’s CE group and one of those who insisted his power does not apply in the above mentioned scenario. Since we’re both relatively new players, I thought I should bring my own reasoning to the table in order to perhaps reach a more definitive conclusion.
To me, this is strictly a matter of the Industrialist’s behavior in a lose-lose situation. Since other aliens’ powers are defined differently, the same rules may not apply. See MimeKirby’s examples - in my opinion, when a Meteor Storm or another effect that causes both sides to lose (such as a failed deal or a Wild Loser) is triggered:
- The Warrior does gain an extra token, because he gets this bonus every time he loses, period (the failed deal is even included on his card).
- The Vacuum does send other players’ ships to the warp because he can do that whenever he loses some himself, regardless of the conditions (or the subsequently targeted players).
- Spiff does not crash land because the loss was not triggered by the cards, but by another game effect. The cards are no longer taken into consideration.
- The Ethic doesn’t get compensation because of the same reason mentioned for Spiff.
The Industrialist’s power does not allow him to “add the card he lost with to his stack unless the opponent can prevent him by allowing him to win”. His power is to face his opponent with a choice. If there’s no choice for the opponent (in this case because he doesn’t have the authority to trump a game effect that specifies both sides, including the Industrialist, are going to lose), then I say the conditions for this particular power are not met. He doesn’t get to automatically add the card to his stack because that would go (I think, and please correct me if I am wrong) beyond the intended use of the power.
If he could, then this could lead to potentially imbalanced scenarios (although this was not the case with our game), such as:
- The Industrialist playing his largest attack during a Meteor Storm, knowing that he can not be prevented from adding it to his stack unless the opponent plays a Negociate. Worst case scenario, he wins the encounter.
- The Industrialist playing his largest attack, then using Emotion Control (since he only needs to reveal an attack in order for it to count for the stack) and refusing to make a deal. Losing three ships for a permanent +20 to +40 sounds like a good deal… Worst case scenario the artefact gets zapped and he wins the encounter.
In order to prevent the Industrialist from stashing whatever attack card he pleases (under certain conditions), his opponent must have the option of letting him win – the “lesser evil” in some cases. Since it’s not up to any player to grant the Industrialist victory after a bilateral loss, I think the most straight-forward option is to say his power doesn’t apply to this scenario. Maybe (and I didn’t think of this at the time of our game) another option would be to say you let him win even though it won’t count because of the other game effect… but this leaves more room for error… Ultimately, the Industrialist shouldn’t get anything when both sides are forced to lose.