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#1 slaamgebel

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 12:39 AM

 Hi all

My first time posting here. I have some problem that you may be able to help me out.

Me and my player wanted to start a Dark heresy game going into black crusade.

Here my no.1 problem one of my player say that sister of battle can't fall to chaos due to their faith power. and if they have a chance to fall chaos it only have like 00.1% chance. ( I know this is more a Dark heresy game question. But the result is for a black crusade game )

My no.2 problem the same player as she is certain that his sister will never fall to chaos. She was planning to play a tyranid that have lost his connection with the hive mind and became an Chaos tyranids ( the exact nids is a hormagaunt) and don't want anything else then that. bcuz for her what black crusade have to offer as playable  ''race'' is not a character that you can play/roleplay without going insane yourself as a players. That I found that absurd.

For here Chaos = Some psycho dude with weapon attacking everything on sight will saying some absurd stuff.  ( that could be true for a khornite and even then. ) 

So what do you think about it. 

also about no.2 is it even pausible to play a hormagaunt or just a tyranid at all.

Thank you for your time 



#2 Keffisch

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 01:22 AM

1. There is 1-2 'official' short-stories where a sister fell to Chaos so there is precedence. Besides, it is your campaign - you decide what goes and what doesn't. :)

2. I find the idea to be a bit absurd, a Hormagaunt is a lesser lifeform, basically an animal. Why does she want to play an alien dog-thing with teeth and claws?

3. Chaos is so much more than RAWR EVIL!, you should consider broadening her view on Chaos, with references, stories of corruption and the Millenia-long strife between Chaos and the God Emperor.



#3 Stormast

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 01:29 AM

1) She's more or less technically right. Although, in the end, it's the GM who decides whether you stick to canon or not. But quite clearly, Sisters would rather commit suicide than falling to Chaos.

2) Hormagaunts are utterly stupid, really. And chaos tyranids? I'm not sure they could even exist (maybe when separated from the Hive Mind, dunno, I'm not a 'nid specialist). I'm quite sure that they won't be covered in Black Crusade anyway.

3) Yeah, Chaos is much more than that. You could have an artist falling to Slaanesh because he strives for perfection, a mad scientist (working for the good of Mankind, of course!) falling to Nurgle as he plunges into his research, etc, etc...

Chaos can basically be the attractiveness of freedom in the strict Imperium...



#4 slaamgebel

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 01:53 AM

 thank for the quick reply.

The bad think about the showing like book, video, explain etc. about what chaos is truly etc. = She as pig head. (already told her) she say I play dawn of war 1 with the expension. the rest I don't give a damn bcuz it wrote from different author. Not cannon, etc.etc. 

You have propably already or currently have a player that the same type as she is. The type that if she set her mind on something it over. What she think is what is good. even if like the 5 other player says. that she wrong. 

I know they also the option of kick the player out. We play at her boyfriend house and if she not in the game she dont want us there. 

(sorry to tell not related topic of black crusade. But If you have ever have someone like that and know a solution it will be great to hear.

Back to topic. I'll give one last chance to try to explain to here what chaos is truly. Is there some where in the net a video. That explain it. 

I'll try to google search about it. But I'll appreciate it if you can link me into video or just call some book up so I can buy them an almost force her to read it :P.

Thank you in advance for take you time for help me with this. 



#5 Lord Ork

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 01:58 AM

Dark heresy provides sisters with specific mechanisms to avoid corruption. Using them is up to the player, in the other hand.

Man, your players need to understand that you can only run a game with characters you are comfortable with. For example, no matter if RT allow kroots to be played, if the GM is not comfortable with them, he should ban them from his games. If they can't understand that, I don't think there's a person who can help you.



#6 Voronesh

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 03:23 AM

1. GW has done stories about sisters getting really, really close to the edge. Quite potentially falling over the edge.

0.001% is still enough. There are 30k sister sout there, i think that gives a pretty high chance of actually falling to chaos over the years (SOB dont live space marine long), so it will be rare, but not impossible.

Hit someone with a couple of major rituals of chaos powers. Each has a 5d10 corruption points if the characters interests are piqued. (I have a navigator who simply loves collecting women (played by a woman) so if a Slaanesh ritual is going on id hit him harder). No matter how much faith the sister in question has. If she is all alone in the middle of a world on the verge of falling to chaos. She could tip over.

2. Tyranids have been corrupted by Chaos. But in general the loss of the hive mind (which cant be rpelaced by a chaos god) means the tyranid creatures die shortly (pick a time period of your choosing but generally only a few years at most) thereafter. So yeah id let the Player get a nid, and let him die shortly therefater.

3. Chaos means way more than killing, although its a big part of it.

Tzeentch loves to do intruiges, hell even make intruiges within intruiges just to have fun. Make something more complicated for the sake of making something more complicated. Get the two brothers to kill each other, simply because you can. A far cry. Probably she has only seen Khorne, and forgot all about the other 3 chaos gods. And there is still chaos undivided to be worshipped.



#7 Lord Ork

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 03:57 AM

What about making the Tyranid a servant of Slaanesh? If she wants something bizarre, let it be fully bizarre.



#8 voresia

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 04:47 AM

Well, chaos is so much more then violence, unless you're one of the cool guys of the world eaters.

Tzeentch is the god of magic, sorcery, just as planed and change. If you want to play a scheming, manipulative, intelligent individual, tzeentch is your man.

Nurgle, the god of disease and corruption, decay and space aids. Also known as the lord of all, because everything withers and dies over time, and nurgle got time to wait. Followers of nurgle often turn to him to ease their suffering (needless to say this dont realy work out as they planed). Also interseting to note is that nurgles power shifts almost constantly. When his servants bring out his plagues in to the mortal realm his power grows, but when his plagues burn  them selves out so to speak, his power diminishes, but never goes away. He just lies in a sort of dormant state untill the next incursion of his servants and the plaguespread resumes.

Slaanesh is the god of perfection, beauty and excess. He came into being when the hedonistic eldar empire reached its apex, and his birth led to the fall of the eldar. Anyone obsessing over perfection will find his prayers and dreams answer by Slaanesh. Artists, painters and just about anyone can fall to this lovable guy realy.

And then we got Khorne, the blood god. War, violence, murder, this is all his domain. The oldest chaos god who came into being during the bloody middle ages of terra. Khorne realy hates psykers and sorcerors, whom he judges to be cowards and weaklings. Khorne cares not who's blood flow, his champions or his enemies, as long as the blood flows.

 

There, a short write up on the diferent chaos gods during a relatively slow day at work. I hope it helps, if not, well I had nothing better to do!

 

And also, chaos gaunt? realy? A gaunt without a snapse creature close by is more or less a frenzied beast. Even whorse then Kharn!



#9 Gregorius21778

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 08:29 AM

slaamgebel said:

So what do you think about it. 

I think you should not even try to play "Black Crusade" with this player. The person is utterly uncooperative. In fact, I would resign leading(GMing) any group containing such a person.



#10 Anonymus

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 09:03 AM

voresia said:

chaos gods during a relatively slow day at work. I hope it helps, if not, well I had nothing better to do!

 

 

And also, chaos gaunt? realy? A gaunt without a snapse creature close by is more or less a frenzied beast. Even whorse then Kharn!

 

 

It could be done. Imagine a deranged Magos/inquisitor binding a deamon to a gaunt host? 

It is chaos. CHAOS!

 

Edit: As for her assumptions about uncorruptible SoB's she is just wrong. Make her read the Grey Knight Omnibus.



#11 blubbbb

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 09:46 AM

slaamgebel said:

 Hi all

My first time posting here. I have some problem that you may be able to help me out.

Me and my player wanted to start a Dark heresy game going into black crusade.

Here my no.1 problem one of my player say that sister of battle can't fall to chaos due to their faith power. and if they have a chance to fall chaos it only have like 00.1% chance. ( I know this is more a Dark heresy game question. But the result is for a black crusade game )

My no.2 problem the same player as she is certain that his sister will never fall to chaos. She was planning to play a tyranid that have lost his connection with the hive mind and became an Chaos tyranids ( the exact nids is a hormagaunt) and don't want anything else then that. bcuz for her what black crusade have to offer as playable  ''race'' is not a character that you can play/roleplay without going insane yourself as a players. That I found that absurd.

For here Chaos = Some psycho dude with weapon attacking everything on sight will saying some absurd stuff.  ( that could be true for a khornite and even then. ) 

So what do you think about it. 

also about no.2 is it even pausible to play a hormagaunt or just a tyranid at all.

Thank you for your time 

Do the DH-Characters already exist? (cause the part about the sister of battle sounds like shes already playing that character)

You ever thought about the possibility that your player doesn't want to play Dark Crusade but doesn't want to say it? What she says about Chaos-Characters plus wanting to play a mindless killer-creature (so nothing that even has a character) sounds to me like she doesn't want to play a character in that game, but probably doesn't want to be out of the round?



#12 voresia

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 09:48 PM

Anonymus said:

voresia said:

chaos gods during a relatively slow day at work. I hope it helps, if not, well I had nothing better to do!

 

 

And also, chaos gaunt? realy? A gaunt without a snapse creature close by is more or less a frenzied beast. Even whorse then Kharn!

 

 

It could be done. Imagine a deranged Magos/inquisitor binding a deamon to a gaunt host? 

It is chaos. CHAOS!

 

Edit: As for her assumptions about uncorruptible SoB's she is just wrong. Make her read the Grey Knight Omnibus.

Yeah but that would just be a daemonhost in  a flimsy gaunt shell.

The chaos gods are a manifestation of the eldar and human races psyche, and therefor they can corrupt us and races with relative similarity to us, like the Laeran or whatever they are called (The snake-men from the horus heresy novel Fulgrim). Nids on the other hand dont have the personality, the fears, ambitions or drive as we do, their mind is just to alien for the gods to corrupt.

The Death Guard legion for example. They got papa nurgles space aids, lotsa physical corruption and pain follows, but only after they made a concious decision to ask ol' Nurgle for help did they fall to real worship. Nid's dont realy have a choice, they just get affected and die.

Though they can be affected by chaos in diferent ways. Like a sorceror casting doombolts at them, they are going to feel that. Or Nugle's rot. Just because they can be infected by a deadly neural virus dont mean they are chaos nids, just a rotting pile of soon to be dead nids.



#13 Kith

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 10:11 PM

As a huge fan of nids I wanted to comment.

 

While most tyrinds will die or go into stupor without the hive mind, genestealers are desinged to operate without direct contact with the hive mind and I could see a genestealer cultist or even a whole genestealer cult falling to the chaos gods and operating for years without the aid or even the knowledge of the hive mind.

I imagine a warrior would be able to function too and would have enough intelligence to be playable but I am not sure how useful it would be outside of combat.



#14 Lord Ork

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Posted 04 July 2011 - 11:48 PM

Would they have personal ambitions or the necessary pasion?

I don't know much about these insects, but they seem too inhuman to be seduced by the ruinous powers. They don't talk the same language.



#15 voresia

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 12:52 AM

Lord Ork said:

Would they have personal ambitions or the necessary pasion?

I don't know much about these insects, but they seem too inhuman to be seduced by the ruinous powers. They don't talk the same language.

I highly doubt they even are self aware.

And even if they where, I highly doubt they would live long enough for them to make that decision tp turn to chaos servitude. I'm no real expert on nids myself, but I'm quite sure that they all jump in the reclemation pool and die, disolve and get restored as delicious biomass after a sucessfull assault on a world. That is if they even survive that long and dont bite the bolt/shuriken/plasma projectile or whatever during he assault.

I dont see any way that a nid could turn to chaos, at all. A nid tainted is another thing though, but why would you want to play one in a RPG?



#16 Kith

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 02:38 AM

I picked Genestealers specifically because they form a Broodmind, which is a localized hive mind that works independent of the hive mind.  They are cunning enough to take over whole worlds through subterfuge, infecting the host species, in this case man, with their DNA.  Genestealers unlike most other tyrinid have an uncanny will to survive and independence from the hive mind. This actually further the hive minds goal since these fleeing genestealers run off and start new genestealer cults, priming new planets for harvest.  Genestealers also are capable of developing psyker powers


The question the becomes how independent could a genestleaer magnus or genestealer patriarch become, and could chaos tempt them?

It would be clear that without major warding or other interference once in the presence of the Hive Mind, the cult would be driven into a frenzy as the hive mind overrode the will of the the broodmind.

As to warriors, they are command units in the Nid line up and a synapse creature, meaning it can give orders to lesser nids.  I only tossed it out as mad puttering, I would assume they wouldn't fall to chaos so much as end up having a powerful chaos scorer or psyker intercept the hive minds will and substitute it's own.  But unlike Genestealer cults which may appear human and communicate as such, the warrior is nothing but a killing machine with fused weapons.

 

Though all of this is just musings on the part of someone who loves the nids.

 

Also as to the idea of someone playing a hormagunt or termagaunt <sp>, I could see a human soul being bound into the body by chaos magics, since the minds of such creatures are so week without the hive mind behind them.  But like the warrior above, we are looking a a creature that has no purpose other then fighting.  It is worth noting that such creatures even lack the ability to eat, being truly throw away weapons of the hive mind.

 



#17 MILLANDSON

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 10:01 AM

Gregorius21778 said:

slaamgebel said:

 

So what do you think about it. 

 

 

I think you should not even try to play "Black Crusade" with this player. The person is utterly uncooperative. In fact, I would resign leading(GMing) any group containing such a person.

I'd rather boot them out, rather than ruin it for the other players who want you to GM, but yea, I mostly agree with this.


~Yea, Tho I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Death, I Shall Fear No Evil~

 

Posts/views/opinions are in no way representative of FFG, and are entirely my own.


#18 van Riebeeck

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 11:04 PM

If one player is completely unreasonable, you can normally make this known as a group and turn them around. If not, there are harsher solutions (let's not start with an exterminatus though), but as I take it these are not an option here, as she is the mistress of the House of Gaming.

This quite clearly means taking the paths of Slaanesh or Tzeentch to get her in line with the party. She obviously has a slightly skewed perception of chaos, so that is the first thing to remedy. In theory, anyone could fall to chaos, including Sisters of Battle (very unlikely, but not impossible). Let us be honest, the right hand man of the God-Emperor himself, the Warmaster Horus, more honoured then any of the God-Emperors loyal servants, has fallen to its temptations. Many of the Primarchs, the ideal creations of the God-Emperor have fallen to chaos. The Emperor himself is not insensitve to the soft lure now his mind starts to fracture, even if he till now has withstood it. So, a sister of battle, however virtuous she might have been, can fall, and can fall very deep indeed. It would even make a very interesting character if you ask me.

Next step is finding out what she likes. There is indeed the danger that she thinks Black Crusade is just about playing a slobbering berserker. I think we do FFG and the Warhammer Universe injustice if we would play it that way (which does not mean you cannot if you wish to, but to me that would be booooring from the first session on). Most players have 'archetype' preferred characters. In my group, you can be just as sure one of the players will wish to swing and sword (or powerfist) and get himself shiny armour as you can be of me diving headlong in forbidden lore and playing a more intrigue/magic focused character. If you can indentify her preffered style of play, see if you can tempt her with character ideas that would fit her and the party.

And if all else fails, use chocolate!

                                                           Friedrich van Riebeeck, Navigator Primus, Heart of the Void






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