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Seeker and Gambler


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#1 MimeKirby

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 03:54 PM

Today while playing CE, we had an unusual situation come up. We played using the multiple-power variant (2 powers each), and one player got the Seeker and the Gambler. From what I remember, Seeker can ask ANY yes/no question, while Gambler can bluff. The player used this to their advantage by asking their opponent "If I bluff, are you going to say I'm lying?" If the opponent says yes, the player can play a specific card, knowing their opponent will lose ships, since they have to abide by their response and say the player is lying. If they say no, the player could play a Negotiate, saying that it's actually a 10,000 (since the Gambler doesn't say the card amount has to exist in the deck). Even though this is clearly a lie, the opponent can't say so because they said they wouldn't to the Seeker. Having rediculously high (or low in the case of the Loser) cards makes wins for this combo easy (assuming Cosmic Zaps don't occur). Does this strategy actually work, or is there some rule that prevents this?

And while on the subject of the Seeker, can it ask questions relating to cards that can't be looked at/stolen by other players (eg. the Claw's claw card, the Miser's hoard hand, etc.)?



#2 MimeKirby

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 04:01 PM

Am I supposed to believe nobody has an opinion on this?



#3 PJSlavner

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 06:11 AM

I do have an opinion, but I thought that someone else who has studied the rules more thoroughly than I have would answer.  I have been playing CE for over thirty years so I believe my opinion is valid.

The strategy works and there is no rule I am aware of that would prevent it.

I believe that you could ask about cards that cannot be looked at/stolen by other players, unless the power mentions that there is no possible way of gaining information about the hidden cards.



#4 Goober4473

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 09:01 AM

Multiple powers is, and as far as I know never has been, remotely balanced. Some combos are extremely potent, like the one you pointed out here (or, off the top of my head, Amoeba + Virus, or Masochist + Kamikaze), and some are terrible or redundant (for instance, Macron + Virus = max 1 ship, multiplied by your card, and thus wasting Macron's effect and ruining Virus's).

There isn't really any way around it, barring piles of house rules. I have a whole custom set of my own, which includes exceptions on all of the powers concerning how they work with other powers, which makes sure there are no broken combos (too powerful, too weak, or normally don't work together at all), but that took quite a bit of work (quiiiite a bit), and I doubt you'd want to print out a whole set of powers, cards, etc. when you own the game already.

It seems like the best option (for people that aren't crazy like me), is to just accept the whacky unbalanced combos. They can be pretty fun.



#5 Adam

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 04:21 AM

Yes, there is a rule preventing this.  The rule is that each player gets one alien.  Multiple powers is a house rule, so the rules aren't going to cover scenarios like this.  The best thing to do is to come up with a list of aliens you think should be disallowed from combining, or just try to fairly analyze each combination before the game starts (though this would mean not playing with hidden powers ever, unfortunately).



#6 MasterDinadan

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 12:45 PM

 Still a perfectly legitimate question since it IS possible to get two powers using the official Technology variant.

I would say that the play is perfectly valid - some alien combos are very effective, but this would probably be compensated by other players rarely inviting the overpowered alien as an ally (knowing that he will easily close any gap during his encounters). Plus, the technology card that grants an extra power only is completed late in the game, if at all. If you are starting the game with two alien powers, do so "at your own risk"



#7 The Warp

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 02:38 AM

This list of "Forbidden Combos" was part of the Mayfair release of CE.  It isn't really comprehensive, and of course doesn't include the FFG-only aliens, but it's a pretty good place to start when deciding which alien combos your group should nix.

 

http://warp.redamedia.com/combos.php



#8 Adam

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 06:23 AM

MasterDinadan said:

 Still a perfectly legitimate question since it IS possible to get two powers using the official Technology variant.

I would say that the play is perfectly valid - some alien combos are very effective, but this would probably be compensated by other players rarely inviting the overpowered alien as an ally (knowing that he will easily close any gap during his encounters). Plus, the technology card that grants an extra power only is completed late in the game, if at all. If you are starting the game with two alien powers, do so "at your own risk"

That's true, forgot about that.  Really neat card, but it's baffling that they would include the ability to gain multiple powers without even addressing the fact that some aliens will not work together, and some will be pretty much unbeatable.  I'm also not sure that they address how Cosmic Zap works (do you lose both powers if zapped, or just one?  I'd guess one). 

The rules don't say, for instance, how Macron-Amoeba would work since their texts contradict each other.  For this reason, I would say that you need to make your own rules for multi-power games and not just say, "Oh, it doesn't say there's a problem with this in the rules" and move on with the game, because the rules don't say anything.






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