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Help! Death Watch Grey Knights


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#1 major shultz

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 02:51 AM

Posted here as well.

Howdy!

 

We are going to need a bit of help to convert Grey Knights to DW. The psychic powers and the solo/squad oaths/abilities/tactics are the main areas of need for clarification or an FAQ.

thanks

 



#2 Siranui

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:02 AM

 I'd be very surprised if the Demonhunters sourcebook for DH did not contain some clues, as it fully stats out GKs for use in DH and DHA games. It's probably a must-have.

Secondly, I'd look towards a very simple re-skinning of the Librarian class. Then make some substitutions on the Deathwatch advance table to make it suitable for GKs.

As regards patterns, the Black Templar's one that gives bonuses against demons would be perfect. There's another in RoB which improves WP checks and psi resistance that would seem appropriate. As regards solo mode, I'd look towards the one that enhances stats and gives re-rolls on it and eventually makes it an unnatural characteristic that is again detailed on RoB and applying it to WP.

As regards statistic bonuses, +10WP would not be out of place at all. I'd probably go for that. Alternatively +5WP and +5Int, perhaps. If you buy the 'GKs have uber geneseed' line of BS, then maybe another advance might be applicable. +5WS, perhaps.

For Chapter skills, there are a couple of Chapter skill lists also in the 'make your own Chapter' part of RoB that would be suitable.

In short: Black Templar patterns and the make your own Chapter chapter in RoB are going to be your friend here.

 



#3 herichimo

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:22 AM

Well not all GKs are fully capable psykers.

Most GKs are only capable of using effective psyker abilities with the help of their squadmates. Kind of a psychic quior thing. Some GKs are potent psykers sure, but most just have a smidgion of power. And of course before Matt Ward got hold of them they weren't nearly as.... po tent as they are now.

I dunno, create psychic squad mode attacks or buffs?

Keep in mind GKs are 100% dedicated to fighting demons, you won't find Hunter of Xenos, Hatred (alien race), or the like in their skill trees. Slayer of demons and hatred (demons? Khorne?) deffinately.



#4 Siranui

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 04:20 AM

herichimo said:

Well not all GKs are fully capable psykers.

Not sure about the new fluff, but under pre-Ward fluff, they very much were as I recall. I'm clearly out of date.



#5 herichimo

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 08:10 AM

Old rules had most GKs using a squad-based "gestalt" (what it says in the book) power. The whole squad focused on an ability and combined their power through the foci of the squad sergeant. Alone they wouldn't be able to manifest the psychic power but together they could do some powerful stuff.

The main difference between this edition and last is the sergeant had to actually buy the psychic powers from the armoury for his squad (with the limitations of 50pts of wargear for a sgt.) unlike now where each squad has... what? 2-4 psychic powers? (not to mention power weapons, storm bolter, crazy ass grenades and funky upgrade options all for only 4 pts more for basic troops...)

Essentially any sergeant in a squad of Grey Knights could use some of his 50pt wargear allowance to buy a deamonhunter psychic power the squad could then use. Fluff wise it still took the whole squad to manifest the power but it originates from the sergeant.



#6 Siranui

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 10:58 PM

 Old rules had them all as level 4 Psykers.

I have no idea what happened when all Grey Knights stopped wearing terminator armour...



#7 herichimo

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 02:54 PM

Hmm let me check my deamonhunters codex.... Nope nothing in there about lvl 4 psykers... But by saying "lvl 4 psyker" you probably mean 2nd edition or lower. You know back in the days when a single psyker could wipe out entire enemy armies. Closer to the days when space marines were simply drafted criminals, marines loved using xenos weapons, and marneus calgar was still just a human.

Needless to say the entire universe has been retconned since then. The last codex before matt wards lovely piece... has them almost exactly as I've described them (the difference being only certain Grey Knight units could buy psychic powers, not all the sergeants... oopsie). Even the termies used those rules. Only the Grey Knight Hero (HQ) was a true psyker out of the box (of the grey knights), he got one power for free and could buy others from the wargear like other squads, although he could take upgrades to allow him more powers and more uses.

But I'm tired of this argument. Thats what it said in the Deamonhunters codex, and generally how its presented in the current codex (super power boost notwithstanding). Take it or leave it, thats how it works in the fluff now. 'Nuff said.



#8 Siranui

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 12:45 AM

Argument?

Where?

Chill, man. I wasn't arguing (hence me SAYING that I didn't know about more recent stuff), and if you were, then why?!



#9 ddunkelmeister

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 08:36 AM

I think the whole "Brotherhood of Psykers" ruleset is supposed to compensate (at least in part) for the lack of Squad Abilities. One marine activates a power (say Might of Titan), the others can join in with a Half Action to benefit from the power.

Power of the Justicar may need to be reworked a bit to fit with the DW psychic rules. Perhaps a marine can choose to only bestow +5 to the Focus Power test and in exchange not give up a Half Action next turn?



#10 herichimo

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 10:22 AM

Siranui said:

Argument?

Where?

Chill, man. I wasn't arguing (hence me SAYING that I didn't know about more recent stuff), and if you were, then why?!

Alright, no worries. I generally use the word argument in its true definition: A discusion with two or more opposing or differing viewpoints. Not so much as its used nowadays, a retort slinging scream-fest.



#11 Akil

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 06:06 AM

damn not out yet in Europe....
Well Ward changed some fluff, and it was back in the 90's very different to the 3d Edition Deamonhunt Codex.
They started with: only Terminator, max psy rank 1 per Terminator in squad, acting as one Psyker. Max 5 Terminators.
3d only Captains, and Grandmasters had a List, the Terminators could use as a Squad Holocaust.
Nowadays they are all still medicore Psykers but can activate certain Powers in a Squad, though need training for the specific abillty only usuable together, unlearning their old way.

For fluff, go with Grey Knight Omnibus, Counter has a way to describe the Brotherhood that is quiet usuable as RP background.

as for pre Release times, a gave them Pure Faith, with some fitting faith powers. And concerning Psi Weapons (Nemesis/PsiBolter) the Number of Faith talents + PF as equvalent Psi Rating. Fits the description perfect. also consider giving them either Armour of Contempt or the Palantine, Favor of the Emporer (wich would be a great Solo Mode, deducting their WP Bonus from all Corruption and Insanity gain.)

I would go for +10 WS, as at least their Table top skills don't indicate ohterwise, use the Hunter of Deamons from RoB + the two Advances Unatural WP x2/x3 from the Primaris Psyker. for 1000 and 1500XP

else, use standard DW rules, just tweak on the DW advance List.
Chaplains, Champion, Dreadnaught, Epistolary, 1st Company Vetran (Paladins), are aplicable.
well rest is tweaking, since, only the Devastor (honored Brother to use Heavy weapons) is still base, with Techmarine and in Theory Librarian.

 

hope i could help

sincerly

Akil



#12 Narkasis Broon

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 11:36 AM

 in Counters grey knight omnibus it is described that they are all psychic to some degree but a lot of their psychic power is used for a passive protection from corruption and daemonic mind control. so only the most powerful have enough psychic energy left over to cast offensive powers. and the squad group powers has been a part of grey knights as long as I have been aware of them. I havent seen the rogue trader fluff but even in second ed (dark millenium expansion) the squad had psychic powers but they counted as one psyker for the purposes of generating and casting powers (the whole squad had 4 powers, not four powers per marine) and a squad could never have a higher psy level than its number of marines as someone said above.

I would say a representation with lots of pure faith powers would be good. I would also include expensive psy rating advances in their chapter skill tree but only 1 or 2. and then use a sustained squad mode mechanic that allows them share their psy rating, so rather than having 5 PR 2 marines 4 of them can give their power to the leader who counts as a psy rating 10 psyker while the squad mode is sustained.

and obviously a form of Holocaust? I think its called that, as a chapter power

 



#13 MILLANDSON

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 08:33 AM

Akil said:

damn not out yet in Europe....

Erm.. it's been out in the UK since the US release. Check out www.leisuregames.com


~Yea, Tho I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Death, I Shall Fear No Evil~

 

Posts/views/opinions are in no way representative of FFG, and are entirely my own.


#14 aussieyobbo

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 07:37 PM

Grey Knights as pc's…….dont do it.

We did it in a game and didnt really mesh well, completely unbalanced






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